The final Small Business Big Marketing episode for 2009, episode 17 covers listener questions including how to name a business and where to find marketing inspiration. We recommend some holiday reading and wrap up the year that was.

We thank you all for your support throughout 2009 and look forward to you joining us for our next season in 2010. Our next episode is due out in mid February 2010, so we’ll catch you then.

Duration: 28:00

Podcast Transcription

Tim: Lukey, Lukey, Lukey, welcome back, part two.
Luke: Part two. How are you, Timbo?

Tim: Good, mate. Last episode was jam packed full of marketing goodness and we just couldn’t do it to our listeners to create a show that was going to go for about, what do you reckon, we were heading for about an hour and a half?

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: So we thought we’ll go part two.

Luke: Yeah, yeah.

Tim: And just split it up a bit, share the love. It’s that time of the year, Christmas, summer. Well probably, in fact just before we came on air we got a Tweet from Rebecca from (0:52) in Holland.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Saying how powdery snowy…

Luke: Snow.

Tim: …and cold it was. So hello to all our listeners in Holland.

Luke: Yes. And indeed the northern hemisphere.

Tim: The northern hemisphere. Because we are not there.

Luke: No.

Tim: Mind you, looking out here, it’s pretty cold. Hey, mate, we’re going to do three listener questions.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: We’ve got our holiday booklist…

Luke: Yes.

Tim: …that’s going to turbo charge our marketing knowledge. Did I tell you we’re number 12 podcast on iTunes?

Luke: You might have mentioned that.

Tim: I think I might have mentioned it in the last show, but it’s worth just reconsidering what that means.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: But we won’t do that now because I mean we’ll talk about it later. Hey, listener questions, thank you by the way to all the listeners over the course of the year who have…

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Where have they sent those questions to?

Luke: Questions@SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com.

Tim: Questions@SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com. And so thank you, I know we haven’t got to actually, we haven’t actually got to that many over the course of the first year because we seem to just…we leave it til the end…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …which is probably a bit rude.

Luke: And then we run out of time.

Tim: We run out of time but…

Luke: So we’re dedicating this episode mainly to…

Tim: Yep.

Luke: …listener questions.

Tim: Listener love, we call it. So, Lukey, first question, Justin, Fremantle, Western Australia.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: I’m having…oh, g’day guys, love your show, blah, blah, blah. Thank you, Justin. I’m having trouble naming my new business. What’s the best way to go about it? Can you do it? No. I gather…I assume he means can we do it for him.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: The answer is no, Justin. We’d love to…

Luke: However.

Tim: However. And he said, do I need a tag line?

Luke: Okay.

Tim: So best way to go about naming your business. Okay, I’ve got a really easy solution. Because it’s kind of something I do, I’ve done a…

Luke: You’ve done a few of these.

Tim: I have, yeah.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: In fact I’ve just renamed a mental health organisation. Which I thoroughly enjoyed doing because it…

Luke: It took a while though, didn’t it?

Tim: It did. It did. But that’s the nature of not for profit organisations too.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Because the approval times and…

Luke: A lot of stakeholders too.

Tim: A lot of stakeholders.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: But we’ve ended up with a great name which I’ll share with you next year when we relaunch the brand because I reckon it’s one of the better names, certainly I’ve come up with, and that’s going around.

Luke: You actually tried some crowd sourcing…

Tim: I did.

Luke: …for the naming of that, Timbo.

Tim: I did but…

Luke: How’d you go with that?

Tim: Well can I tell you first, because that is a good tool for outsourcing, but the first thing when you are naming your business, I reckon a great question to ask, and we’ve talked about this before, you’ve got to understand what your business stands for, what your brand stands for. Because there’s no use just putting your finger in the sky and saying what should I call it. Have a criteria. Write yourself a brief in order to then go away and start naming based on what your brief, the direction your brief has set. The number one question in your brief is what do I do.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Four very important words. So in terms of my business I say, you know, I make…I show businesses how to be irresistible, okay, so that’s what I do. We’ve talked about other examples of…there’s a brewer in Australia who says they make the world more social. These aren’t tag lines. These are like, it’s almost positioning statements, you know.

Luke: Part of your brand character, Timbo.

Tim: Part of your brand character, correct.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Go to my website TheIdeasGuy.com.au and have a look at the brand character process that I take people through. But if you know the emotional answer to the question, what is it you do; it’s a very very good lead in to then being able to develop a name. On top of that, you need to know what your personality traits of the business are, okay.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: So are you a fun loving kind of excitable, colourful, or are you more kind of conservative and quiet and all that type of stuff. So if you know what you do, the answer to what you do, and you know the kind of personality you want to create around your business, then it’s a damn good start to coming up with a name.

Luke: And if you are asking other people to name your business, it’s a great brief.

Tim: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you wouldn’t ask an architect to go and design you a house without a direction from you.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And it’s the same with naming your business. Online tools, Lukey, what have you got? There are…because you can crowd source it, you know.

Luke: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim: You can put it out on Twitter, you can write a brief on Google Docs and share the link, you know. There’s a great website called WordLab.com.

Luke: You’ve used WordLab before, Timbo.

Tim: I’ve been using WordLab for years. WordLab I use instead of…you know, sometimes I do crosswords just to keep the old brain active, but I’ve been…I often just go to WordLab.com.

Luke: And name businesses.

Tim: Name businesses, yeah. It’s a free online forum.

Luke: So instead of Sudoku you name businesses.

Tim: I never got Sudoku, no, I just do crosswords, mate. Just basic crosswords, not even the cryptic stuff.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: But, you know, like WordLab has got…you can name services, products, promotions, businesses, bands.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And it’s just a free online resource.

Luke: Babies?

Tim: I don’t know. But that is something very close to your heart right now, isn’t it, Lukey?

Luke: Yeah, indeed. A website that SitePoint has just launched, namemythingy.com.

Tim: Namemythingy.

Luke: Namemythingy. You can actually put up a brief and ask…ask…basically crowd source the naming of, you know, as you said, Timbo, just about anything.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: So that’s another resource that you can use.

Tim: Lastly, Justin, and thanks for this question, because clearly it’s a good one, have courage, you know, just have courage when naming something. I think we can often fallback on fairly conservative names. I think it’s important the domain name is available.

Luke: Yeah, definitely.

Tim: It doesn’t necessarily need to be exactly, it’s nice if is exactly the business name in the domain name, but around about is pretty good. And Justin also asks, Luke, do you need a tagline. My answer, my simple answer to that is if your business name does not describe what you do very clearly…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …then you need a tagline to qualify it.

Luke: Yep. I agree.

Tim: Do you?

Luke: Absolutely.

Tim: Do you want to challenge me on that?

Luke: No, I think some people like to choose a name that…when they start their business it basically means nothing. It’s, you know, like…I’m trying to think of one now and I can’t.

Tim: The Ideas Guy.

Luke: No, no, see that says what it does.

Tim: It sort of does and it doesn’t.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: The Ideas Guy, I did need a tagline, which was making businesses irresistible. Because I just felt I knew what it did and it’s developed a kind of a life of its own which is kind of nice but…

Luke: I’ve got an example.

Tim: Go.

Luke: iPod.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: A thousand songs in your pocket.

Tim: Yeah. How good is that tagline?

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And that’s not even an emotional tagline, it’s just such a good product that…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …to be able to say that.

Luke: But when iPods first came out way back when…

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

Luke: You know, what is it? A thousand songs in your pocket.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: Or 2000 songs or…

Tim: Yeah, well now it’s…one bloke showed me the other day he had forty-two thousand three hundred and something songs on his iPod. It’s like, and how many do you listen to. Anyway, hey, Justin, thank you very much for your question.

Luke: Thanks, Justin.

Tim: And thank you for listening. Lukey, who’s next?

Luke: We’ve got Kim from New York.

Tim: New York. I love it. Last question from Fremantle, now we’re heading off to New York, where to next?

Luke: Yeah. Okay, Kim from New York, you guys seem to know a lot about marketing. Thanks, Kim.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Where’s it all come from? What books would you recommend?

Tim: Where’s it all come from. Don’t even go there.

Luke: Yeah, no.

Tim: Where’s it all come from? Look…

Luke: That’s why…that’s sort of why we…that’s really why we interview people.

Tim: Yeah, it is.

Luke: You know, it’s a continual process of learning and getting inspiration from…

Tim: Yep.

Luke: …others that are doing some weird and wonderful things.

Tim: You know, my experience, and I’ve been marketing for 20 years now, is that I found a whole lot of marketing stuff is BS.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And we all know what that stands for. I just think it’s a whole lot of, you know, people trying to make use of their eight hours in a day really.

Luke: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim: Getting research done and writing mission statements and vision statements and…oh, that’s interesting. Did I mention this the other…in a previous episode, but the guy who came…mission statements do my head in, I don’t get them, they sit on a wall and gather dust, right…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …if you go into big corporates. The guy…I don’t know whether I shared this, I might be doubling up, but anyway doesn’t matter, if you’re listening for the first time then here we go, the guy who invented mission statements is a guy called Tom Peters.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And he invented them however long ago. He has retracted the idea of a mission statement about five years ago because he found that arms companies, companies that develop, you know, bombs…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …and bullets, have similar mission statements to hospitals, right, caring for customers, good corporate citizens, all the motherhood statements.

Luke: Doesn’t it make you sick?

Tim: Yeah, yeah, it does. How did we get onto that? But, look, that’s why, because I thought all marketing over the course of the years…I just see a lot of stuff that does my head in and a lot of money wasted so…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …kind of trying to get it down to the good stuff and that’s why we interview people.

Luke: Yeah. What books, Timbo?

Tim: Righto, mate. This is kind of…we’re kind of integrating the answer to this question with our summer reading list.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Which I have sitting here. You’ve just finished one and you put me onto it and I’ve now finished it. Talk about it.

Luke: Crush It! by Gary Vaynerchuk. Timbo…

Tim: A bloody ripper.

Luke: It’s a really easy read.

Tim: Yes.

Luke: And I don’t mean that…I don’t say that because it’s, you know…

Tim: Are you saying I’m an easy read?

Luke: No. And, look, Crush It! is all about…a lot of it is about personal branding, I found, that’s what I got out of it.

Tim: Yep, yeah.

Luke: And developing your personal brand. And I think that’s something that everyone should do. Whether you have a small business or whether you’re professional, whether you’re a tradesperson.

Tim: Whether you like it or not, in the coming years and decades people will be going online to find out about other people, if they’re not already.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Okay.

Luke: Also from an employment point of view.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: I…when an employer, when a prospective employer, is looking at candidates, I believe they’re also going to be looking at that candidate’s network as well.

Tim: Ooh, yeah.

Luke: They’re not just employing the person. You know, if, say, someone has a couple of thousand followers on Twitter, they might have thousands of friends on Facebook, they might be hooked into a network of people that that particular business wants to get in touch with.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: It makes them a lot more employable than if…

Tim: Lukey.

Luke: Timbo.

Tim: That was a good book. Thank you for putting me onto that because Crush It! I just cut you off then but. Hey, next book.

Luke: Next one.

Tim: Freakonomics by Steven Levitt and Stephen Dubner. A rogue economist explores the hidden side of everything. I did an Amazon order a few weeks ago and the box arrived and these were all books that I chose.

Luke: It must have been just like Christmas.

Tim: I love getting that Amazon box, I love it. So this is a book that’s been around for a while now, Freakonomics, and it is very well talked about. On the back, which is more dangerous, a gun or a swimming pool? What do school teachers and sumo wrestlers have in common? How much do parents really matter? Okay, so what has that got to do with marketing, I’ll tell you next year. Lukey, another one is What the Dog Saw. And I bought this for two reasons. One, it’s written by Malcolm Gladwell.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Who wrote Tipping Point?

Luke: Tipping Point.

Tim: And Blink.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And second reason is I love the art direction on the cover. Yes, I am a very simple person but I do love the art direction. But this is Malcolm Gladwell who is a very insightful young man, and look at him there, there’s a picture of him in the inside sleeve. He looks like sort of Andy Warhol meets Keith Richards, I would say.

Luke: Meets Harry Potter.

Tim: Meets Harry Potter. But this is…so he’s written a couple of really good insightful books in Blink and Tipping Point.

Luke: Yeah, Blink and Tipping Point definitely recommend…

Tim: Yeah, put those on the list as well if you haven’t read them.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: This is…Malcolm Gladwell for a number of years has written for The New Yorker and this is a collection of the stuff that he’s written for The New Yorker so…do you know what I also love about buying from Amazon?

Luke: The smell of the box.

Tim: I do like the smell of the box but I wouldn’t tell anyone that.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: I just did. I love the fact that you get hardcover books.

Luke: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Tim: Us folk in Australia, well that’s an American…why did I do an American accent when…

Luke: You mean us folks here in Australia?

Tim: Yeah, us folks down…

Luke: Down under.

Tim: Oh, look, there goes a kangaroo down the street.

Luke: Yeah, mate.

Tim: Look, we don’t get hardcover books and if we do they’re just really expensive.

Luke: Yeah, yep.

Tim: Hey, next one, Trust Agents. Are we going to put all these on the show notes, guys, so stop scribbling, I can hear you scribbling madly and you don’t need to. Trust Agents by Chris Brogan and someone Smith, I’ve taken off the sleeve so I can’t see the names. But this is a fairly intellectual book but it is a book about how to gain trust using online resources. And a pretty important, Chris Brogan is prolific online, particularly in Twitter and with his blog, chrisbrogan.com you can check out. Do you want to add one, Lukey, while I go through my list or shall I keep going?

Luke: 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing.

Tim: Oh, come on, mate, that’s not a Christmas read. Hey?

Luke: It’s another easy read, it’s another good book.

Tim: It is. I’d rather set fire to my own leg than read that over Christmas but…no, that is a good book. You do have to put that on your…

Luke: No, where…this is answering what books would you recommend for Kim from New York about marketing.

Tim: I know, I know.

Luke: That’s a good one.

Tim: All right, all right, let’s take this outside. This one, I don’t know much about, it’s called Connected by Nicholas Christakis and James Fowler. Both…one’s MD PhD and the other one is PhD, intellectual stuff. The surprising power of our social networks and how they shape our lives. When I did this Amazon order for summer holidays I did kind of want to pump up my knowledge for the coming year, because I’ve got some big plans, so that’s why I haven’t got…the next book is fictional.

Luke: Right.

Tim: Okay. The only one of the list.

Luke: Have you got a picture book there for me?

Tim: You want a picture book, go and get a Larson, you know, like Gary Larson Far Side.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Go and get one of them, that’ll make you laugh. Sit round the pool and laugh madly. My last book is for our reading list, which is nothing to do with marketing, Kim from New York, is Matthew Reilly’s the Five Greatest Warriors.

Luke: Nice.

Tim: Yeah. It’s kind of everywhere, it’s all over bookshops at the moment and it’s the Five Great Warriors. Look at it, Moses, Jesus Christ, Napoleon Bonaparte, Genghis Khan and Unknown. It is fictional.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And it is about the end of the world and it is probably a pretty interesting read. A bit of a rollercoaster read, I’d say. So, look, I’ve started that and kind of cool, kind of sci?fi, no, not really sci-fi but fantasy and whacko stuff.

Luke: Look forward to hearing about that.

Tim: Gee, that was a big list.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: But…and if you were going to read one of them, I would actually say Crush It!

Luke: Yeah, definitely.

Tim: It’s simple, easy and…

Luke: Inspirational.

Tim: And will get you…it’s actually really practical.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: I love practical marketing stuff that you can use.

Luke: Stop crying and start hustling.

Tim: What?

Luke: That’s one of Gary’s sayings.

Tim: Stop crying?

Luke: And start hustling.

Tim: Is that right?

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: He’s a fairly charismatic…you know what?

Luke: What?

Tim: Okay, I’m going to set myself up here; we’ll get him on the show next year.

Luke: Ooh, big call, Timbo.

Tim: It is a big call. But I’ve got a list; I’ve started creating a list of things…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …for next year.

Luke: Good one.

Tim: And because we only became the number 12 podcast for the year in 2009, did I mention that?

Luke: Come on, Timbo.

Tim: Sorry, sorry. I always say to my wife, you know, never tell a joke more than once.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And I’ve probably told that joke about six times.

Luke: Yeah, it’s…

Tim: So it’s clearly wearing thin. But we do have a list of guests that we’re building up for next year.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Which are really going to, I reckon, challenge us and take the show to a bit more, I don’t know, a bit provocative in terms…is that the right word? Challenging.

Luke: Challenging, yeah.

Tim: Provocative was a bit…

Luke: Yeah, we wouldn’t make…

Tim: …on the erotic side.

Luke: We wouldn’t make it onto iTunes at all if we…

Tim: Yeah, that’s right.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Okay.

Luke: And also, listeners, if there is someone that you want to hear from, send us an email questions@SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com.

Tim: Yeah. Someone like really…who you think is doing just really really great marketing, or on the reverse side, thinks marketing is a load of.

Luke: Yeah, yeah.

Tim: Because we’d like to be challenged.

Luke: Yep. Now, Timbo, the final question?

Tim: Yep, we have, here we go, Jess from Auckland. Lukey, we’ve gone from Western Australia to New York and we’re back into the southern hemisphere, Auckland, New Zealand, and Jess asks…do you reckon Jess is a boy or a girl or a dog? Because there’s a lot of dogs called Jess, aren’t they?

Luke: Yes.

Tim: I am finding it difficult to find a designer who I can work with for the next few years on my business, Jess says. I will require logo, stationery, brochures, website and ads. Good shopping list. But they all seem either too expensive, non responsive or too busy. Do you have any tips for solving this problem? Jess, great question.

Luke: Timbo, you’ve got a pretty good story about this.

Tim: Look, I do and I too have for many years looked for designers who kind of fit the criteria of what I’m looking for, and I have a number of designers that I use, depending on the brief, but I have found through 99designs initially he…this fellow.

Luke: Dot com.

Tim: Dot com. This fellow is…he won the competition that I posted on 99designs. And when I saw it…

Luke: Quickly what is 99designs?

Tim: Post a brief, get a logo.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Or get stationery.

Luke: It’s a design competition.

Tim: It is, design competition. Where, if you need something designed, post the brief, you’ll get responses from all around the world, finished designs, you choose one, award them the nominated amount of prize money that you decide to give out.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Thank you for that, Luke. Do you work for the company or something that…yeah, exactly, exactly. Go to TheIdeasGuy.com.au.

Luke: Full disclosure, yes…

Tim: Yes.

Luke: …I work with 99designs.

Tim: Guys…

Luke: And…

Tim: Go on.

Luke: Yep, so you basically put up a brief.

Tim: Look, the guy who I ended up picking, I then went and had a look at his website, his work just astounded me in its simplicity and its beauty.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Because I do love a good logo. I have subsequently contracted him. His name is Nikola.

Luke: Where? Where is he?

Tim: Nikola is in…I don’t even know where this place is, this is how bad my geography is, Serbia.

Luke: Wow.

Tim: I love that. I love going to people, oh yeah, I’ve got a great designer, he’s in Serbia. But, you know, oh gee he’s good.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: He is so…he’s just a brilliant designer. He is cost effective, he is quick, he is flexible, he challenges me. He just fits so many of the criteria that I need for a good designer. And I love working with him. And so that’s not really answering the question but what it does say, the question being how do you find a good designer. Look, go to 99designs, find a design you like and then find out who did it.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: And see whether they’re in your price range or whether they’re the kind of people you want to work with. That’s not hard to do, you know, if you go around a website and see a nice design, contact the web designer who may be able to put you in touch with the graphic designer. By the way, guys, web designers aren’t graphic designers all the time, so I think that’s an important…

Luke: Or vice versa.

Tim: Or vice versa.

Luke: Yeah. I’ve, in my former web development business; I’ve employed graphic designers and web designers before. Once you find a good one, hang onto them…

Tim: Hang on.

Luke: …as hard as you can.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Luke: Good designers are undervalued.

Tim: I’d agree. I agree.

Luke: And once you find one that you can work with, like Tim has, pay them well and hang onto them.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Luke: I had one of my best designers poached from me and…

Tim: You did. You did. And I’ve subsequently used him, haven’t I?

Luke: You have.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: And I was…I rue the day that…

Tim: Don’t mention names.

Luke: No.

Tim: Hey, and guys, the other thing is, elance.com. That’s a good place to go and find designers, maybe, maybe not. Certainly you’ll save money, but you get to see their portfolios.

Luke: Yeah, that’s true.

Tim: So, you know, you can choose there. Ask around. And don’t be afraid to just, you know, I think one of the things that designers love and will be willing to work with you more, even if your budget is not as big as they’d like it to be, have a good brief and I think we do…we will do…spend some time in one episode next year about how to write a good creative brief. Because once you’ve written a creative brief, and in fact I’ll be covering this in my Bali marketing and wellbeing retreat in June, how to write a good creative brief.

Luke: Could be good for you to put up some templates, Timbo.

Tim: That would be giving away a hell of a lot of intellectual property but…

Luke: Maybe just for our listeners.

Tim: Oh, yeah, yeah, because no one else would know. So, no, it is, I mean once you’ve got a good creative brief written for your business…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …the job’s done. And that brief can form the basis of so many marketing materials that you require.

Luke: Yeah, and look, you can find some great examples on 99designs and on elance.com.

Tim: Yeah, yep.

Luke: Particularly elance finds…you can actually find people that are regularly requesting.

Tim: Yep, yep.

Luke: And you’ll find some good briefs on there.

Tim: And, look, the other thing is, last idea for Kim from Auckland, if you are on Twitter…

Luke: Kim was from New York. This is Jess from Auckland.

Tim: Oh, this is Jess from Auckland. Sorry. So what I would do is Tweet about it if you’ve got a bit of a following on Twitter.

Luke: Yeah, get people to refer you one.

Tim: There is a lot of designers on Twitter, let me tell you.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: In fact there are lists of designers on Twitter that you could follow. So, hey, thank you, listeners, for your questions. Now, Lukey, well this is not a sad time, it’s not sad at all.

Luke: No.

Tim: It’s just kind of the end of the first season of Small Business Big Marketing.

Luke: Yeah, and we’ll look forward to starting back in the New Year.

Tim: I am looking forward to it. We are going to have…I’m really looking forward to it. If we can get some of the guests on that we have on our list, we are going to rock the free world, the free marketing world, you know, it’s going to be great. So, listeners, first of all, a big big shout out to…this is where the credits start rolling, guys, so bear with us and do listen because there’s some people…and in fact, listeners, first and foremost this show is nothing without listeners.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: We would not be number 12. As much as we joked about it, being number 12 on iTunes for 2009 was…is only because we have a whole lot of beautiful listeners from all around the world.

Luke: Yeah. And people that leave some fantastic reviews on iTunes.

Tim: Yep. So…

Luke: If you haven’t.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Luke: Drop one on.

Tim: If you haven’t, that would be great. I mean, please go and rate the show and please leave some written feedback on iTunes for us.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: It doesn’t have to be glowing, but just if you could give us feedback, that would be a wonderful thing. Email us a question for the New Year.

Luke: Questions@SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com.

Tim: Say g’day to us on Twitter which we will be linked on our website but…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: What’s your Twitter?

Luke: Luke Moulton, that’s M-O-U-L-T-O-N.

Tim: And mine is Timbo Reid, T-I-M-B-O R-E-I-D. Come and follow us and say g’day.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And tell us what you’d like to hear more about next year. And get linked in with us.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: We’ll have all these links on the show notes, guys, but we’d love you to come over and get linked into us, build the community. We’re going to kind of use…going to get even a bit more intelligent in the New Year, Lukey, with the way…we talk so much about social media but it’s all been about time obviously. We’ve got full-time jobs that we’re doing and the podcast is kind of…

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: I wouldn’t say secondary but it’s one of those things, I mean, we do need to spend some time on getting the website right and a few other things. And that will be the New Year’s challenge.

Luke: Yep. And getting to number one in business podcasts.

Tim: Oh, stop it. I think we are, we actually are. If you go to marketing on iTunes, we are number one.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Which is kind of nice, brings a tear to a glass eye. Tell everyone. And shout outs, shout outs, shout outs, listeners, thank you. Sammy Cavanaugh.

Luke: Yes, thank you, Sam.

Tim: Who has been our producer and our…

Luke: Given generously of his time.

Tim: Mate, has he ever. Time, studio, love, patience, and all he wants is a Subway or a Nando’s chicken…vegetable burger or…

Luke: Vegetarian.

Tim: You know, God bless you, Sammy. Thank you so much. And…

Luke: Jack.

Tim: Post.

Luke: Jack Post, a lovely young fellow who’s been doing the edits for us and post production.

Tim: Yeah, great guy, Jack. Thanks, mate, for all the work you have done. And who else? Mum, do you want to thank your mum?

Luke: Yeah, thanks, mum.

Tim: Thanks, mum.

Luke: Thanks, Tim.

Tim: Thank you, Luke. Stop it.

Luke: It’s been great working with you.

Tim: Yep, virtual hug. Virtual hug. It has been good.

Luke: You’d crush me.

Tim: Yeah, we’d crush it. Hey, what are you doing, are you going away?

Luke: No, I’ve basically got a week off and I’m just going to…

Tim: Oh, yeah.

Luke: …potter around here at home.

Tim: Yep, lovely.

Luke: And yourself, Timbo?

Tim: Going up to the Whitsundays to a tropical island.

Luke: Queensland.

Tim: Queensland, yeah. And going up with the family, going to a Club Med actually and going to do a bit of water aerobics and…that will be a sight, wouldn’t it? No, but we’re going to have…

Luke: Speedos or board shorts?

Tim: I think I’ll go the budgie smugglers.

Luke: I’m glad I’m not going to be there.

Tim: Okay, but, look…

Luke: Don’t take any photos.

Tim: I will. Hey, we are going to have a good time because this has been a big year and I’m just going to kind of relax, read those books that we mentioned. Guys, visit out show notes. Have a lovely lovely Christmas time.

Luke: Yeah, check out the website SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com.

Tim: I was going to…you shrug…you are the marketer from…you’re the marketer’s marketer. I was just about to wish everyone a merry Christmas and you’re just like, bang, straight into it. Okay, merry Christmas, guys.

Luke: Merry Christmas, guys.

Tim: Have a great holiday. I was going to say summer holiday, but if you’re in the northern hemisphere have a lovely winter holiday…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …or time with your family. And thanks for listening. Love you, love your work. Lukey.

Luke: Timbo.

Tim: See you in the New Year.

Luke: See you, guys.

Tim: Bye.

Ahhhh…the end of the year is nigh! We can smell the brandy cream and hear the presents being opened already. Welcome to the second last episode of SBBM for our 2010 season. And today we have a very, very sepcial guest in Luke Moulton…that’s right Lukeee, Lukeeee, Lukee! He’ going to share with us the good, the bad and the ugly of PAY-PER-CLICK (PPC) advertising. Specifically a bit of Google Adwords and Facebook advertising action. We also touch on the fact that our humble little marketing show has been voted by Apple iTunes as the 12th best new podcast for 2009. *Blush*. So sit back, grab a Pina Colada or some other 80’s type cocktail and get ready to have one more part of your marketing demystified.

Google Adwords

Facebook advertising

Market Samurai – Keyword Research Tool

Google Keyword Tool

Perry Marshall

Duration: 30:26

Podcast Transcription

Tim: Lukey, Lukey, Lukey.

Luke: How are you, Timbo?

Tim: Lukey, you are looking exceptionally ravishing today because you are growing your hair, aren’t you?

Luke: Let’s be honest, time for a trim.

Tim: Is it really?

Luke: It is, yeah.

Tim: You’re not going for that…you kind of look like Keith Urban.

Luke: Thanks.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, you’ve got that middle part.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And in fact what I’m going to do during this show is…

Luke: Take a video.

Tim: Yeah, I’m going to get the flip out.

Luke: Great.

Tim: And show the viewers what I’m having to look at…

Luke: Could have warned me for that one.

Tim: I could have, mate, you could have done your hair.

Luke: Anyway, we’re trying to keep this show down to 20 minutes so…

Tim: Good luck, good luck. Welcome back, listeners.

Luke: Welcome back.

Tim: To Small Business Big Marketing, the show that…

Luke: Came number 12 on iTunes in Australia.

Tim: It didn’t, did it?

Luke: For podcasts.

Tim: Let me get that right, Luke, you’re saying…you’re telling me that our little marketing show…

Luke: Our humble little marketing show.

Tim: Our humble little marketing show was voted by the secret people at iTunes as being number 12, best new podcast in Australia for 2009. Is that what you’re saying?

Luke: That’s what I’m saying, Timbo.

Tim: My goodness.

Luke: And I think you’re pretty used to saying it yourself.

Tim: Yes, look, I have told…I have shared it with the odd person via Twitter and various other social networking sites and also just told family and friends.

Luke: Generally.

Tim: And just blokes in the street, I walked past a bloke the other day and said…

Luke: I actually meant to get you a t-shirt for Christmas.

Tim: Should just say guess what and people could go what.

Luke: What.

Tim: And I’d go just call me number 12. That’s pretty cool. So, yeah, welcome everyone back to Small Business…last show for the year, Lukey.

Luke: Yes, indeed, Timbo.

Tim: Last show. Is it number 15, 16, whatever.

Luke: It’s around about that, yep.

Tim: Around about that but what a year, what a year in marketing it’s been.

Luke: Yeah. I can’t…it’s gone so quickly.

Tim: It has. Been a dream, it was a dream for many years to do this show.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And we are doing it.

Luke: And enjoying it, loving it.

Tim: Rocking it. Hey, a bit of news before we get stuck in.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Because it’s going to be a really interesting show today. We don’t…well our guest actually is you.

Luke: Me?

Tim: Yeah, you.

Luke: Not you.

Tim: Not me, no. But…so a bit of news, in our last show I just overtly promoted A Health Approach To Marketing, my Bali wellness and marketing retreat which was going to be in April and I made a mistake.

Luke: Really, why?

Tim: In the spirit of honesty and transparency it was just the wrong time to launch.

Luke: A bit premature, Tim?

Tim: No, it wasn’t premature it was just the wrong time. It was just like…I’m not a premature kind of guy. I know you are, we bring that out later.

Luke: Please.

Tim: No, no, look, it was just…it was pre Christmas and, you know, it was like I launched early December or late November whatever it was.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: It was just the wrong time. And it’s a good lesson, you know. Whilst you think I know everything about marketing…or do you?

Luke: Me?

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Or are you talking to the listeners?

Tim: Yeah, well…

Luke: Please.

Tim: Nah, look, I made a…it was, it was like…it should…I’ve postponed it til June.

Luke: It’s also been a very busy time of year, Timbo.

Tim: Yeah. Yeah, it has. But that’s no excuse. You know, I put all the effort into getting all the marketing materials ready, just the date was wrong. Got a lot of enquiry, but people…it was hard for people to convert at the most expensive time of the year…

Luke: Yeah, yeah.

Tim: …with their business, you know, Christmas shopping and doing all that.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Anyway, it’s going to happen two months later. It’s going to happen in June and we’ll relaunch it in Jan, early Feb. There’s only ten spots. They’re going to go quick this time and we’ll worry about that in the New Year.

Luke: I’m sure we’ll be plugging it again sometime.

Tim: No doubt, no doubt. Lukey?

Luke: Timbo.

Tim: How is the marketing manager at flippa.com?

Luke: Flippa is going great, certainly been an interesting first three weeks. And one of the most interesting things I’ve found is the immediate feedback you get in an online business. You know, if you do…if you do something wrong or something that the users don’t like, you find out immediately.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Which is kind of interesting, you know, you probably don’t always find that out in a bricks and mortar business. People are less inclined to be open and honest to your face.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Whereas in…

Tim: I’ve got a story about that, you finish yours and I’ll share mine.

Luke: But, yeah, so it’s…you develop a bit of a thick skin but also it’s just great being that hooked into your user base. And you get immediate feedback through blog posts or forums.

Tim: So what do you do with the feedback, do you actually act on it or…

Luke: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Tim: And then do you tell them you’ve acted on it or?

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Yeah. And, you know, just communicating even in comments on a blog post. There’s a bit of to-ing and fro-ing and, you know, you find out what people want or if they feel that you’ve done something wrong or they want to see something implemented on the site. So it can be quite instant.

Tim: And is it the squeaky wheel that gets oiled? So is it the bloke or the person who yells the loudest, you go and fix that problem or do you…

Luke: Yeah, we don’t just immediately jump if someone’s screaming the loudest.

Tim: No.

Luke: You make sure that you go back and ask the general user base. And there’s certainly a core group of users on flippa.com that…

Tim: Hey, you’d better be careful what you say because some of them might be listening.

Luke: Yeah. I’m not going to name names.

Tim: No, no, no, no. All Flippa users we love you, or you love…

Luke: No, no, there’s…and we have a great following, a great loyal user base that we refer to and ask their opinion on stuff instead of just going, oh, you know, bang, let’s do this or that so.

Tim: Fellow geese.

Luke: Correct.

Tim: Fellow geese.

Luke: Yeah. No, actually there’s a lot of work from home mums.

Tim: Is there?

Luke: Yeah, yeah. We actually met with one a couple of weeks ago, a Melbourne lady and, yeah, so there’s quite a bit of…certainly people that are building sites, start up sites, so they’ll find a niche, they’ll build a site, they put it on Flippa and literally flip it. And that’s certainly the lower end of the market so it’s quite…

Tim: Can we not promote them anymore?

Luke: Yeah, yeah.

Tim: I’ve just decided that my business is much more important. No, look, that’s interesting. Good on you, good luck for the New Year. And tell me…I’ll tell you my story, a quick story.

Luke: Okay.

Tim: Because I was the marketing manager at a bricks and mortars business which was a large travel agency in Australia and I was responsible for about 200 stores, travel agencies.

Luke: Wow.

Tim: Yeah, and they didn’t hold back in letting me know how I was going as their marketing manager.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And there were times when I just didn’t want to turn on my phone in the morning because I knew, and there were times when I’d have 20, 30 voicemails from irate store managers, not because I’d done something wrong but actually because I’d got the phone ringing too much. Which is kind of interesting. Because obviously there’s a level where you’ve got to generate enquiry as a marketing person, but not so much enquiry that it actually annoys the customer and the staff and…

Luke: So you did your job too well.

Tim: I did my job too well, yeah, yeah. Well I got paid, yeah, here’s the thing, my KPI was enquiry.

Luke: Right.

Tim: Okay. So as a result all I had to do was get the phones ringing and I got paid well. You know, so the problem in getting the phones ringing was it wasn’t a KPI that the stores really enjoyed. Because they were about, you know, building long term relationships, which is absolutely fair. So that was an interesting one. We might do a show on that in the New Year about kind of matching performance indicators with, you know, everyone else in your business.

Luke: Yep, yep.

Tim: Okay. So that’s pretty cool. Business planning for 2010 is kind of on my agenda at the moment.

Luke: Yep, yep.

Tim: And it probably is for all small business owners out there in the small business world. And I just think a really interesting thing is to sort of figure out what question should you be asking yourself in order to get the ducks in a row for the New Year.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: You know.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: My question is kind of around, you know, what am I really going to enjoy doing in the next 12 months and where am I going to add the most value to my clients. And so I’m spending time going, okay, what fits into that, then that’s what I’m going to do. What doesn’t fit into it, put it aside and kind of make it secondary if the time shows itself.

Luke: Yep, yep.

Tim: So that’s a good kind of little exercise to do, Lukey.

Luke: So start asking yourself the questions.

Tim: Yeah, the hard questions.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Look in the mirror. Don’t you look in the mirror with that hair?

Luke: No, no.

Tim: Keith Urban. All right, mate, now, today’s interview is with you.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And it is all about?

Luke: Pay Per Click advertising.

Tim: Pay Per Click advertising.

Luke: Yeah, which includes…well I’m going to talk about, mainly about, AdWords. But we’ll have a bit of a chat about Facebook as well.

Tim: I’m going to grill you on this.

Luke: Cool. I’m looking forward to it.

Tim: Because you keep telling me you’re Australia’s leading expert in Pay Per Click, is that…

Luke: That is not true, I do not claim that, Timbo, but, you know, I have…

Tim: But you’ve got…

Luke: I spend a bit of time doing it so.

Tim: You do. Well you’ve got the number 12 pod…number 12, was it?

Luke: Podcast.

Tim: On iTunes.

Luke: Yeah, yeah.

Tim: So number…oh, man.

Luke: Yeah. Anyway we haven’t…

Tim: Oh, sorry.

Luke: Let’s talk about PPC.

Tim: What is it? PPC?

Luke: PPC, Pay Per Click.

Tim: Right, okay.

Luke: So what is Pay Per Click advertising? Basically it’s when you can advertise, put up an ad, for example, on Google or on Facebook, and you only pay when someone clicks on your ad. So you might…that ad might be presented 1000 times in front of many users but if you…

Tim: For free?

Luke: For free. But you only pay when someone clicks.

Tim: I think actually there is a disclaimer on that. Because I think Facebook do have…you can pay for impressions.

Luke: You can.

Tim: And…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: It’s much much cheaper.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Or…and then…so when someone clicks through you don’t actually pay but…

Luke: There is an option in AdWords that you can choose to do this by advertising and pay per thousand…

Tim: Is there?

Luke: …CPMs.

Tim: Okay.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And you mentioned Facebook and Google AdWords.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Yahoo?

Luke: Yahoo as well. MSN.

Tim: Where else? YouTube?

Luke: They’re…well YouTube uses Google’s engine.

Tim: Okay. Do you know what someone said to me the other day, don’t know if it’s true or not, this is how rumours start, but someone sort of said to me because I said, you know, 12th biggest marketing…no, no, no. He said like what’s the biggest search engine in the world and I just, you know, immediately said…

Luke: Google.

Tim: And he said, no, YouTube. Could that be right?

Luke: Well it might be for volume of searches. But in terms of volumes of users, I don’t know, I’d have to look at the stats on that. I mean, certainly in Australia Google has got around 80, 85% of the market.

Tim: Wow.

Luke: It’s a little bit less in the US. But in terms of search, Google is still the biggest, I believe.

Tim: Yeah, I would too.

Luke: In terms of volume of users.

Tim: You wonder what could knock Google off its perch, don’t you? Like it’s just so ubiquitous. It’s like…it’s just part of the vernacular now, you know. I’ve got three kids and they talk about, you know, just go and Google something.

Luke: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and Google keep releasing more and more web applications.

Tim: Yeah, they do.

Luke: You know, sort of, they’re heading in the direction of owning the Internet.

Tim: They are, well if they don’t already.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: I mean, I live on Google Documents.

Luke: Yeah, so do I know.

Tim: As a collaborative tool…we’re moving away from Pay Per Click here, but that’s okay, we’ll get back into it. As a collaborative tool, Google Docs is ace. What I’m finding is, you know, if I create a…if I do a creative brief or I want to create some copy for a website or whatever it may be, I’ll create a Google Document out of it and then just share it.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And then they can edit it.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And then just close it. There’s no need to…you never lose touch with which is the most up to date version.

Luke: And also there’s…if you’re an employee and you’re moving from home to work, as long as you’ve got Internet, you’ve got…

Tim: You’re there.

Luke: You know, you can access it anywhere.

Tim: Between Google Docs and Dropbox, which is a kind of online storage thing that we’ve spoken about previously.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: You can just live in the cloud.

Luke: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim: You know?

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And it’s good by Microsoft, you know.

Luke: Correct. Yeah.

Tim: And, yeah, it’s kind of interesting. And all that is free.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Dropbox and Google Docs, free. And you get spreadsheets, documents.

Luke: At flippa.com we use Google Docs.

Tim: Enough. Enough, okay.

Luke: Anyway, back to Pay Per Click. So…

Tim: Okay, what have you got?

Luke: I’m going to focus on AdWords today. And, Timbo, you asked me to come up with five tips.

Tim: Yeah, how many did you come up with?

Luke: Eleven.

Tim: You are good, aren’t you?

Luke: First thing first is make sure you set up your tracking. One of the best things about Pay Per Click is that it’s all accountable because you can actually track everything. You can track revenue; you can track ROI on a keyword…per keyword basis. So going back to what, once again what is Pay Per Click, when someone types a keyword phrase into Google, you can actually bid on that keyword phrase so that you come up in the sponsored listings, usually on the right hand site.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: Sometimes it can appear at the top in a slightly dimmed orange box.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: So what you’re trying to do with Pay Per Click is find keywords that are going to lead people to click on your ad and then hopefully go through to your site and convert into a sale or a lead.

Tim: Yep. Which is, after they’ve clicked, obviously Google’s or Yahoo’s or whoever, their job’s done.

Luke: Their job’s done.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: And it’s…

Tim: What do you mean set up tracking? That’s a bit of a bottom term.

Luke: Okay.

Tim: Like, is that…

Luke: Well essentially let’s use Google Analytics which is a tracking application.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: That you can put on your website to find out, you know, how many visitors are coming to your site.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: And when you pair Google Analytics with Google AdWords, the two engines can interact together and you can find out basically you can find out so when someone clicks on a particular ad, a search on a particular keyword, they’ve come to your website, so you can track that as a visit and then you can also track a conversion. So if that person…a conversion is when someone might fill out a contact form, as simple as filling out a contact form, or if you’ve got an ecommerce website, they might buy something.

Tim: Okay. So setup tracking using Google Analytics and AdWords.

Luke: And AdWords, yeah.

Tim: Okay.

Luke: So if I…I’m going to use the analogy of a photographer, because I know that one of our recent listeners is a photographer in (14:37).

Tim: Yes, correct.

Luke: So using as an example, photographer puts up an ad called…he’s bidding on wedding photographers, or wedding photographer, he’s got his little ad there, someone clicks on that, they go to his site, have a look at his folio, like him, and then go through and submit an enquiry form. That would be a conversion.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: So he might then, okay, for every ten enquiries I get I get a sale. So he can work out his ROI…

Tim: Okay.

Luke: …based around that so…

Tim: That’s pretty cool.

Luke: So that’s my number one tip, make sure you setup…

Tim: Number two?

Luke: …setup your tracking and get your web developer to help you with that if you don’t know how too. Do your keyword research and do thorough keyword research.

Tim: Here we go, the boys from…where are they?

Luke: Well Market Samurai…

Tim: Market Samurai.

Luke: Market Samurai is a great tool but…

Tim: The last interview.

Luke: Google’s keyword tool is fine.

Tim: It is pretty good.

Luke: Yeah, it is, it’s great. And it’ll give you an idea of basically how many people are searching for a particular keyword, how competitive that keyword is, so how much are you going to expect to pay per click.

Tim: And what I love about it is that, you know, with your keywords, don’t be shy, listeners. List as many, create as many as possible and create, you know, more and more what I find personally, and I know other people have spoken to…are keying into Google sentences, you know…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …what is the best digital camera for a teenager. You know, people would key in that…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …as opposed to digital cameras. And so if someone is keying in what is best digital camera for a teenager, they’re pretty serious about buying. And I would imagine there’ll be less competition for that phrase, maybe.

Luke: Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right. So long tail keywords…

Tim: Yep.

Luke: …is basically what you’re talking about.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: I’ll go into that a little way down. You’re stealing my thunder already, Timbo; you can’t help yourself, can you?

Tim: I can’t, mate. But I’m concerned that you’ve got 11 and we’re at number two.

Luke: I know. Look, in terms of keywords, this is actually tip number seven, I’ll jump to that, there’s a bit of an 80/20 rule. So you can go and…go and, yeah, sure, initially go and find as many keywords as you can, split it up into themes. Try and split your…

Tim: Oh, yeah.

Luke: So if you’ve got, let’s say…

Tim: Use digital camera example.

Luke: Yeah. So, yeah, digital camera, digital cameras. If you’re selling a number of different digital cameras, Canon digital cameras.

Tim: Oh, yep, so by brand.

Luke: By brand.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: So try to…

Tim: By megapixels, by covers.

Luke: By megapixels.

Tim: Whatever it is.

Luke: If, yeah, like if you’re an online e-tailer selling digital photography products you might have accessories, camera brands, etcetera, so…

Tim: I’m going to steal your thunder and I reckon, you know, we might be able to carve some of the 11 down to maybe five, do you think? What I love about it is, if you do spend the time with your Pay Per Click strategy and actually develop groups of keywords that are all around the same theme.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Then write ads.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And I know this, I know I’m probably stealing your thunder. I haven’t seen Luke’s points, listeners, so he’s sort of looking at me a little bit cross with a little bit of sweat on his brow, but that’s life.

Luke: Who’s the expert, Timbo?

Tim: Yeah, that’s right. Oh, look, I just bumble my way through it but when I do get into it I go, gee, this is powerful stuff.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And so it’s like group your keywords by category or theme, write ads that are 100% relevant to that category or theme…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …so that when the ad appears in that search, it’s like really relevant.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And then when someone clicks on it they go to a page that is relevant to the search. So how many points have I just…

Luke: Three, four and five you’ve stolen.

Tim: That’s good, mate.

Luke: Geez.

Tim: No, that’s good. You can just…

Luke: Timbo is absolutely right. With your ad groups and if you’ve done…if you had a play with AdWords you’ll know what I mean when I say ad groups.

Tim: And you do have to play with it, it can look complicated on the surface.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And if you really want to get stuck into it you can become the boffin of all boffins but…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …at a fairly basic level you can very quickly see after a two or three week campaign what’s working and what’s not.

Luke: Yeah, look, if you want it to be successful you have to manage it closely for a good month depending on the volume of clicks that you’re getting through. Don’t have more than 20 keywords in an ad group. And start off with 20 and actually a good strategy is to actually peel out, it’s called the peel and stick method…

Tim: Here we go.

Luke: Perry Marshall.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: (19:19).

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

Luke: Is to peel out the top one or two most popular keywords and put them in their own group…

Tim: Yeah, right.

Luke: …and even more highly target your ad copy around those specific keywords.

Tim: The old direct marketing control kind of theory, isn’t it?

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And then you’ve got your control which is like what’s leading the way, kind of your benchmark.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And then you try and beat it.

Luke: That’s right.

Tim: And beat it and beat it.

Luke: And that’s why I always say the 80/20 rule, 20% of your keywords will account for 80% of your clicks.

Tim: Yep, okay.

Luke: So you’ve jumped all over my points…

Tim: That’s all right.

Luke: But that’s all right.

Tim: That’s all right; we’re making relatively good sense.

Luke: Start with the search network. So there’s…with AdWords you have…basically you have two options.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: You can go with the Google search network and the content network. The difference being Google search network is essentially Google search engine and a few other search partners as well. Content network is basically you’ll essentially be advertising on people’s websites…

Tim: Yep.

Luke: …that have installed AdSense, not to be confused with AdWords.

Tim: Yes.

Luke: I’ve certainly found that the search, Google search network gets you more qualified…

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: …clicks and leads.

Tim: If you tick content network, you’ll get hundreds of thousands of impressions is my…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Well, you know, tens of thousands, if not 100,000 impressions, but you just don’t know where you’re appearing. I know Google kind of monitor the sites that they allow their ads to appear on, but it’s a bit of a raffle.

Luke: It is a bit of a raffle and it takes even more time to manage content network campaigns.

Tim: Yeah. So…

Luke: And I’d suggest if you do want to try it, try it in the future once you’ve got the hang of the search network and then split out campaigns specifically for the content network.

Tim: Yep, okay.

Luke: Very important thing, if you’re a bricks and mortar business or if your product or service is locally focused, only advertise locally.

Tim: Yeah, that’s…that is an ace thing about Google AdWords. Because you can geographically go, you know, I want to be in these suburbs.

Luke: Yeah, yeah. Or you can be as specific…obviously country, state and then Google will even give you a map that you can draw around for the area approximately that you want your ads to appear to.

Tim: Can I just tell you a quick story about that? I came across Google AdWords properly about four years ago where a guy came out to fix my Mac.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And he was a bit of a character and I got talking to him, I said where do you get all your business from and he said it all comes from AdWords. And that’s how I found him. Initially I keyed in Mac technician. I was living in Melbourne in Malvern at the time and keyed that in and he came up. And he said, he explained to me how when he puts…when he does his campaign in AdWords, he actually nominates roads, you know, it was like…these roads won’t make any sense to you, listeners, but just bear with me, he says like Warrigal Road to Burke Road, not past Dandenong Road and not over Victoria Street.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And in Melbourne that’s a kind of pretty tight geographic area.

Luke: Yeah, yeah.

Tim: And that was amazing. He said he does not get any business outside of that area.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Because his ad doesn’t appear. And yet he…and he runs his whole business on that.

Luke: And, you know, going back to the photographer example, you know, perfect, if he wants to do wedding photography in, you know, the eastern suburbs of Melbourne, well he can choose to advertise in that space.

Tim: Yeah, it’s cool.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: What else you got?

Luke: What else have I got? Budget.

Tim: Yeah, that does my head in.

Luke: Yeah, it’s going…it depends…basically depends on how competitive the area is that you’re wanting to advertise, how competitive the keywords are. So obviously if you’re wanting to sell loans, finance.

Tim: Right.

Luke: You’re going to be paying about $20 per click.

Tim: Yeah, right, okay.

Luke: But if…once again it sort of goes back to your long tail keyword analogy before, Tim, you know, if you’re bidding on, let’s say, Cannon digital camera model number, you know, DQ112.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: You’re going to be paying a lot less…

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: …for that keyword.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: And also it’s more highly targeted.

Tim: How do you decide at the start when Google says how much do you want to spend a day, it still does my head in about trying to figure out, you know, besides going what you can…obviously affordability is…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …is a key criteria for that. But just how do you know what you’re…what it’s going to cost you per click?

Luke: Google’s keyword tool will tell you approximately.

Tim: Approximately.

Luke: So it will say, okay, so for your…this particular keyword, you can expect to pay 80 cents per click and you’ll be in position three of six in the…

Tim: Right.

Luke: …in the sponsored sites.

Tim: Is it pretty accurate? Have you ever gone back and looked at it?

Luke: Yeah, it’s reasonably accurate. There are other factors though that determine how much you’re going to be paying per click.

Tim: Ah, the Google algorithm.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: The unknown, secret herbs and spices.

Luke: One of them is called quality score…

Tim: Quality score.

Luke: …and quality score is basically, you know, how…

Tim: Me and my mates used to have that. Sorry. Sorry, that was a very teenaged joke.

Luke: So quality score is basically how well does the keyword that you’re bidding on match, firstly, the copy in your ad.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Luke: And then the content of your landing page.

Tim: Okay.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: One more, Lukey.

Luke: One more.

Tim: Because we are going to just go over time and, you know, I’ve told you, we are the number 12 new podcast in Australia on iTunes and we can’t afford to do this anymore.

Luke: Right, okay, okay, I’ll try and be quick.

Tim: Right.

Luke: Split test your ads.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: So always have two different ads and then keep improving because you’ll see better click through rates for one than the other. Point to relevant landing pages, I just touched on that before. So don’t just point to your home page. You know, if you’re selling a Cannon digital camera, well point to the Cannon digital camera page…

Tim: Yep.

Luke: …on your site. And optimise your ad position. In certain campaigns I’ve found that position three to five…

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: …gives you a better quality conversion than position one.

Tim: Yeah, it’s interesting because they’ll go, I’ve got to have position one…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …but in actual fact there’s some kind of weird mentality that you go, the ads in the middle, well I think they’re just as valuable as the ad on top.

Luke: And it comes down, I think it comes down to the buying cycle. When people are really looking to buy, they’re looking for relevance and they’re willing to spend a little bit more time searching through the results and they’ll tend to look around a bit more and go, oh, hang on, cool…

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: …that’s more relevant. Whereas some people will be get a bit click happy and just click on the first one that comes up.

Tim: Yep, yep.

Luke: So you tend to get better ROI when you…well I have found…

Tim: And well you’re the leading…you’re Australia’s leading expert.

Luke: …position three to five.

Tim: Hey, you know what?

Luke: Yes, Tim.

Tim: People say, oh, when I talk to them about AdWords, if I talk to a new client about AdWords, they go, oh, no one looks at the ads on the right of the screen.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: They just look at the, you know, the natural search results in the middle. I don’t believe that and clearly Google don’t believe that. Because this is Google’s kind of…it’s the way that Google make money, isn’t it? It’s a…

Luke: Yeah, look…

Tim: It’s a major revenue stream.

Luke: I, you know, once again I can only speak from experiences, some of the more healthy campaigns that I’ve run I can expect…you can expect a click through of around 3%.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: So that means for, you know, for every…

Tim: I would have thought more. That’s like direct marketing kind of percentages.

Luke: Yeah, but just remember you’re only paying for the clicks.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, true, true, true, true.

Luke: And a campaign I’ve done recently is more like the 9.5%.

Tim: Ooh. So nearly 12. Hey, Lukey?

Luke: Timbo.

Tim: That’s interesting. That’s Google AdWords. We said we were going to touch on Facebook. Facebook, guys, is incredibly simple. Google AdWords can be simple, but you’ve got to spend time with it. I ran…I’ve been running some Facebook campaigns recently for clients and myself, and gee it’s easy. It is really easy. And it’s incredibly targeted. And if you go back to an earlier episode of Small Business Big Marketing where we interviewed David Curry who is an iPhone app developer.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: He spent $1000 on Facebook advertising and he…that’s all he did for this little iPhone application and it worked gangbusters. And he used it so targeted, how’s this, he wanted to get opinion leaders. Go back and listen to the show, guys, but it’s a product…an application that tells females in America what the weather is doing so they can decide how to…how it will affect their hair that day.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: He used Facebook to target women 18 to 25 or 18 to 30 year old women in New York who work in the media.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: You know, that is targeted stuff.

Luke: It doesn’t get more targeted than that.

Tim: No. So…and it worked gangbusters for him. And, look, he spent 1000 bucks, he got it back. You know, the ROI on that was massive. But that was a good interview that one.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Might go back and listen to that myself. Hello, Dave, if you’re listening. So, guys, Facebook advertising Google AdWords advertising, highly effective, you know. If you’re running print, radio, TV advertising right now, which I’m sure not many of our listeners are…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …because we’re small business guys. They might be running print ads and stuff.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: But I would just really seriously recommend carving off ten, maybe 20% of your above the line advertising spend and just putting it into Google AdWords. That’s what I’d do, you know.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And the downside is not huge.

Luke: No.

Tim: The upside is massive. All of a sudden you’re going to get very accountable, very effective activity on your website. Because that’s what happens. I mean, just watch the traffic increase to your website.

Luke: Indeed. Yeah.

Tim: Hey, Lukey.

Luke: Timbo.

Tim: Did I cut you off then?

Luke: No, no.

Tim: Okay.

Luke: Go on.

Tim: That’d be a change.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Hey, mate, we’re going for quite a while. We’ve got a bit to go, we’re going to call this part one.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Of episode whatever number it is and come back and in the next episode, which is going to probably get uploaded shortly thereafter, we have got three listener questions to finish the year off and we have got our Christmas holiday reading list, our summer holiday reading list.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Which people have been asking about. And then a little goodbye. So until next time, Lukey.

Luke: Until next time.

Tim: Say hello to your mother.

Luke: Seeya.

Tim: Bye.

In this episode of Small Business Big Marketing you will hear Luke gush (often uncontrollably) as we speak to Ben and Eugene, a couple of blokes who have got their heads and business well and truly around the online marketing world. Owners of the Melbourne business Noble Samuri, the boys reveal how you can find your way to the top of Google with some basic understanding of key words….why a key word isn’t a key word….plus you’ll hear about an amazing 30-day FREE program that takes you step-by-step through how to make your first dollar online.

BUT, even more importantly, at least in Tim’s eyes (!!) is the launch of A HEALTHY APPROACH TO MARKETING – a five-day marketing and well-being retreat held in Bali in April 2010 and facilitated entirely by Tim. And, as a listener, if you register now (and there’s only 10 spots available) Luke and Tim will produce FREE a 20 minute episode of SMALL BUSINESS BIG MARKETING focussed 100% on solving marketing challenges for your business. This is our Spotlight product and normally costs $497!

Duration: 49:33

Show notes

A Healthy Approach To Marketing
30-Day Challenge
Permission Marketing
Live Scribe Pulse Pen
Pivotal Tracker
Jing
Screen Flow
Go To Meeting
Base Camp
Google Reader

Podcast Transcription

Tim: Lukey, Lukey, Lukey.

Luke: How are you, mate?

Tim: I’m very very well. How are you?

Luke: Good, mate.

Tim: Do you have a…are you sporting a mo?

Luke: I haven’t shaved for a week.

Tim: Are you sure?

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: It’s not a Movember thing?

Luke: No. Well it could be a month that I haven’t shaved for.

Tim: Wow.

Luke: It’s pretty short, no, I’m just kidding.

Tim: You are looking like a lumberjack.

Luke: Thanks, mate. Thank you very much.

Tim: My pleasure.

Luke: I’d actually just like to say thank you to Erin Evancich who does our wonderful intros and outros.

Tim: Hasn’t she got a voice that would make a grown man cry? Bring a tear to a glass eye. Yes, she is lovely. And thank you, Erin, if you are listening. Do you reckon she’d be listening?

Luke: Probably not.

Tim: I’d be a little bit chuffed if she was.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Hey, back to your mo.

Luke: Yes, mate.

Tim: Movember is a very very clever bit of marketing.

Luke: Sure is, isn’t it.

Tim: Yeah. For our overseas listeners, it’s an organisation that, I think, here I say it’s clever marketing, I’m not even 100% sure, but is it men’s health?

Luke: Yes, it is. Mental health and prostate.

Tim: Prostate. Is it prostate or prostrate?

Luke: One is lying flat and if you get it you’re lying flat.

Tim: Yep, you don’t want to really think about it. But it’s men’s health.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: And it involves blokes growing mos and…

Luke: And getting people to sponsor them.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Essentially.

Tim: Yeah. Women could, I mean, could women enter it, do you think?

Luke: I think there is some sort of section for…

Tim: I…

Luke: But…

Tim: I was actually joking. Is there really?

Luke: I think there is, yeah.

Tim: A women moustache growing competition.

Luke: Yeah, look, I’m not going to stipulate on this.

Tim: Because you’re…

Luke: I’m not sure.

Tim: No. And your wife is Greek.

Luke: Yeah, true, let’s not go there.

Tim: Let’s not go there. Hey, so, look, it’s very 70s porn and the fact that you’re not growing a mo for Movember doesn’t matter because you look…

Luke: No.

Tim: You look delightful.

Luke: Thanks. Thanks.

Tim: Yeah, my pleasure.

Luke: Timbo, what have you been up to, mate?

Tim: Mate, mate, this is going to be a blatant plug before we get stuck into our guests, on Friday, which was three days ago, I launched my healthy approach to marketing. What is it you all ask?

Luke: What is it, Timbo, what’s it about?

Tim: I’m glad you asked. Mate, it is, it’s a big event I’m holding next year in Bali. It’s a mix of marketing and wellbeing. It’s a five day retreat for ten people only. So I suggest act quickly if you are listening to this. Ten people only. Going to Bali. It’s five days where I am going to share all the marketing kind of gold that I’ve picked up over the years, you know. So that’s the kind of marketing and there is also a wellbeing part of it too. So we’re kind of going to do this thing where we’re going to do like marketing sessions each day for like four to five hours.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: You know, in the sarong.

Luke: Wow.

Tim: Yeah, sarong and a bit of…

Luke: You in a sarong is why I’m not going.

Tim: Yeah, not pretty. But so we’re going to do a whole lot of marketing stuff, you know, covering social media, branding, advertising, the whole online world, you know, website stuff. There’s an itinerary on the website, Luke, which is…

Luke: What’s the web address, Timbo?

Tim: It is healthyapproachtomarketing.com.

Luke: It’s not oneweekwithtimboinasarong.com?

Tim: No, but I will register that. And, look, the other part of it, so there’s a whole lot of marketing stuff, then there’s a whole lot of wellbeing stuff. And the idea of the wellbeing stuff is to look after ourselves as business people should.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: But it’s also to create in looking after your wellbeing and the type of stuff we’re going to be doing, yoga, meditation, art classes, we’re even going to teach English at a local Balinese school.

Luke: Fantastic.

Tim: Yeah, it will be good. And the idea of that is to kind of create a creative environment and an innovative space, because we’re also going to spend time, I’m going to facilitate an innovation session, a killer innovation session, around each attendee’s business. We’re all going to contribute marketing ideas for their business, dedicated.

Luke: Brilliant, it’s a great idea.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Great idea.

Tim: So it will be very cool. And healthy approach to marketing, guys, it’s .com, healthy approach to marketing. I should spell that out, it is long, and I know we had that discussion.

Luke: We did, yep.

Tim: But it says what it is.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And, you know, it was hard. I couldn’t get healthy marketing.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: I couldn’t get all these domain names. So I make it work. There’s a blog there, there’s itinerary, the accommodation, it’s all laid out.

Luke: Some lovely photos too, Timbo.

Tim: Yes, there are.

Luke: I’m very envious.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: It does look like a beautiful spot.

Tim: And without rattling on too much, I’ll come back at the end and tell you some of the add ons that are included and make a special offer for our podcast listeners if they register. How’s that?

Luke: Oh, good idea.

Tim: Yes, thank you. Yeah. No, why not. We should reward those who reward us by listening to our show.

Luke: That’s right.

Tim: Lukey.

Luke: Timbo.

Tim: Who’s our guests?

Luke: We are speaking to a couple of guys from Market Samurai, which I’ve mentioned on this show before. We’re speaking to Ben and Eugene from Market Samurai. The business name is actually Noble Samurai and the product is Market Samurai.

Tim: I didn’t get that. So, okay, so their business is Noble Samurai?

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And they’ve got a product called Market Samurai?

Luke: Correct.

Tim: And has Noble Samurai got other products?

Luke: Not as yet that I’m aware of, no.

Tim: Yeah. I got a little bit cross eyed during this interview, didn’t I?

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Which is not a kind of criticism of the boys.

Luke: No. You zoned out occasionally and tried to change the subject…

Tim: I did, I tried to sabotage it, didn’t I?

Luke: You did.

Tim: But, you know, like you have to sometimes. Because I kind of reckon, as I keep saying, you’re a little big geekier than me.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And I kind of represent your basic listener, whereas you’re just, you’re high end, mate. You’re the intellectual grunt of this show.

Luke: Hardcore geek.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Yeah. But great. Wasn’t it interesting? So we’ll get into these guys in a minute, Ben and Eugene. But we did ask them how did you find our show.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: And they said…

Luke: We haven’t listened to it.

Tim: …we haven’t listened to you. So immediately my ego was hurt.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: But more importantly, it does raise the opportunity that when you are going to meet a new client, a new supplier, anyone related to your business for the first time, an employee, someone you might be employing, use the online world to suss them out.

Luke: Yeah, very easy these days with Google. Or there’s different social profiles. That’s one thing I’ve done actually recently, Timbo…

Tim: Yes.

Luke: …is setup a personal blog, which is basically just a website to hold all these profiles that I have.

Tim: Really?

Luke: You know, like Facebook and YouTube and LinkedIn and Twitter.

Tim: What’s the domain?

Luke: Lukemoulton.com.

Tim: Clever. Gee, you were lucky to get it.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: I suppose it’s not that common a name.

Luke: No, no.

Tim: But still. So…

Luke: But, you know, you have all these profiles and I thought well, you know, they’re all over the place, why not just put all the links in one spot.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: And you can syndicate the feeds from, you know, other blogs and Twitter feeds and Facebook…

Tim: So just so I’ve got this right, because that’s interesting, because I’ve got timreid.com.au.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And that goes to my business website, theideasguy.com.au. But what you’ve got is lukemoulton.com.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And on that is kind of like your…people can bounce off to anything, your Twitter…

Luke: Correct.

Tim: Your blog, your LinkedIn.

Luke: Yeah. Flickr account, YouTube.

Tim: Mate, you are rocking the free world, hey.

Luke: So, yeah, and a couple of links I have to put up too is one for my new work as well, for flipper.com.

Tim: How’s it going?

Luke: Going great. It’s been my first week. I spent the first week learning about our users, basically…

Tim: Yep.

Luke: …trying to educate myself about our customers, which has been really interesting. There’s a diverse range of users on flipper.com, which is the number one place for buying and selling websites.

Tim: Come on. It’s more appropriate I (7:53) my Bali retreat than some kind of third party business that you happen to be working for. Hey, but so it’s been a good week?

Luke: Yeah, it’s been great. Been awesome.

Tim: How far is the drive, Luke, from your home to your office?

Luke: Yeah, it’s a little bit over an hour, Timbo.

Tim: A little bit. Yeah, closer to two. Oh, gee, listeners, Lukey’s work…

Luke: That’s the toughest part of the gig.

Tim: Yeah, oh well, you know, you can listen to this podcast.

Luke: Yeah, you know…

Tim: Get some tips for your job.

Luke: I love listening to you. Because I’ve missed you so much.

Tim: Stop it, stop it. Had some great listener feedback to the last couple of weeks, guys, since the Haul interview with Scott Kilmartin.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Where Scotty shared a whole lot of gold and we do have a winner of the competition where you have to leave feedback.

Luke: We will announce that at the end of the show.

Tim: Yeah, great. That was a good interview, lots of good feedback.

Luke: Yeah, yep.

Tim: And, you know, it’s really clear, the guests who are very strong in the social media world, you see the spike on our listener shift, don’t you, the way…

Luke: You sure do.

Tim: They just…it just becomes viral.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: You know, listen to Scott on this podcast. Or it was like with Eddy, you know, like that was nuts. That was when we got told by our…what is it, our hosting company?

Luke: Yes, by HostGator.

Tim: By HostGator to, you know…

Luke: Tone it down, boys.

Tim: Yeah. Grow up, your music’s too loud.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Buy some more space.

Luke: I’ve actually put in…just speaking of Haul, I’ve actually…I’ve put in a request to my wife that I’d like a Haul bag for Christmas.

Tim: How about put a request into Scott who was our guest on the show. Hey, Scotty, if you’re listening, can I tap on the mic? Boys and girls, let’s get stuck into this. So we started off by asking Ben and Eugene from Market Samurai what are you here for?

Male speaker: I’m here because I was told that there was some definite value in being here and that you guys were interesting to listen to and…

Tim: Definite value for who?

Male speaker: Well potentially for us.

Tim: Yeah. I’m being blunt. Exactly. So, listeners, number one rule, do your research. But so this show, well we might not tell you what it’s about. It’s sort of about, you know, the really cool places to go in Melbourne, isn’t it, Luke, it’s sort of like a tourist…

Luke: I’ve actually, I’ve briefed…

Male speaker: I’ve actually asked those questions two or three times, I was able to get a bit of a brief on what the background was.

Luke: Ben and Eugene have been well briefed via email and I’ve had a chat to Ben as well about what the…

Male speaker: Roger that, Roger, Roger.

Luke: …what the show’s about. And I’m sure these guys are going to make it relevant to our audience.

Tim: Okay, all right. Well that’s very interesting.

Luke: So welcome, Ben and Eugene, from Market Samurai and Alliance Software, essentially. Ben, Eugene, perhaps you’d like to tell us a little bit about Alliance and Market Samurai and how you guys got started?

Ben: Sure. Okay, well Alliance Software is a more traditional web development business. And Eugene, after probably five years of me nagging him, he was working somewhere else, came and joined us, but on the day that he joined us, one of the things he said, he said, “One day I want to run my own business”. And he was actually experimenting both with our clients and some of his own projects with a bunch of ideas around keyword research and he went to a seminar one time and met with one of the Internet marketing gurus of the world, one of the guys with a very large following and…

Tim: Who was that?

Ben: That was Ed Dale.

Luke: Ed Dale, yep.

Ben: And showed Ed Dale some of the stuff that he’d been working on in his, in his sort of, you know, in…as experimental stuff, and Ed Dale…that was in May, and Ed Dale was launching a major training program for about 50,000 people in August. And Ed and Ed’s offsider, a guy by the name of Rob, said if you can turn that into software, we will make that a major part of our program.

Male speaker: Yep.

Ben: And so we basically turned our company upside down. We had guys literally sleeping overnight. We had people doing 12 hour shifts and then tagging for someone to go and sleep on a hot bed. And then…and I was bringing clean underwear to the office, I was bringing toothpaste.

Eugene: Serious, that’s not an exaggeration.

Ben: You name it. We had an initial budget of…

Tim: How did you get your underwear like through reception?

Ben: Yeah…

Tim: Like, just out of interest, was it in a kind of briefcase or were you just kind of…

Ben: Well we…no, we run the company so we just…we were blatant about it.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ben: We were just like do you want the Jockeys or the Bonds. It was like, you know, it was right there.

Tim: Here they are. Here they are. What I want you to do is just rewind a little bit and say to our listeners in laymen’s terms, no tech talk, what you do, what can you do for them, one sentence, go.

Ben: Okay. We have two businesses, one can build them a website, the other one sells them a tool that they can use to get their own website ranked well in Google.

Tim: Cool. That’s a good thing.

Male speaker: So…

Tim: So you can build them websites?

Ben: Yep.

Tim: Or they build them themselves?

Ben: No. So well Alliance Software is a website development company.

Tim: Yeah, okay.

Ben: And we do sort of tech heavy stuff.

Tim: Okay. So that’s pretty interesting. Website development companies, dime a dozen.

Ben: Yep.

Tim: What sets you apart, why would I go to Alliance?

Ben: We tend to get the crossover between the technical heavy lifting, so the stuff that’s very technically involved and the stuff that has an online marketing focus. So heavy hitting direct marketers will often use our services rather than a graphic design company or something like that.

Tim: Right, okay. So if you want a brochure, kind of pretty looking website.

Ben: Yeah.

Tim: Do not go to Alliance.

Ben: Yeah.

Tim: But if you want kind of something that’s going to have ecommerce and all that type of stuff…

Ben: Integrate into sales force and their backend accounting program and still making a bunch of money, that’s the stuff, yep.

Tim: And what was the other, what was the other part of the business?

Ben: Then there’s Noble Samurai.

Tim: And what do they do?

Ben: They sell a piece of software…

Tim: Yeah. And it gets you ranked high in Google?

Ben: And it’s got about 90,000 users that have used it, and literally we had a training program with a bunch of newbies and the 4000 people who actually implemented of it, within the space of, what was it, 15 days or something like that, 1000 of them got front page rankings on Google.

Tim: Lukey, I love how Ben has all these really definite definite facts about what his business has done and can do…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …for their customers.

Luke: Yeah, indeed.

Tim: You know, to have that basic, that really short sharp facts, you know, statistics is really powerful.

Luke: Yeah. And real life, a real life explanation of what it is that they do.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Yeah, the old benefit driven stuff. But, you know, I was even this morning, I was selling Christmas trees at the local scout hall and one of the dads there as well was talking about, you know, we were actually talking about Twitter and I found myself in fact I was only yesterday looking at my kind of Twitter stats, you know, how many tweets I’ve put out and followers and all this type of stuff, and I was quoting those numbers to him and he was actually saying to me, you know, how can you quantify what those numbers have generated for you.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: I was actually able to because I know…

Luke: Yeah, yeah.

Tim: …I know the business that I’ve got from those numbers and it’s just a very compelling way to sell an idea in.

Luke: Indeed, yeah.

Tim: Back to Benny.

Male speaker: That’s impressive stuff.

Ben: So that was through Ed Dale’s program, 30 day challenge.

Luke: Yep.

Ben: If you haven’t checked it out, 30 day challenge, 30daychallenge.com. It’s a good one. I think it’s a great program for anyone if they want to…

Male speaker: What did you get for that? How much do you get paid for it?

Ben: Well actually it’s a…Ed does it for free.

Male speaker: And…

Ben: So it’s actually a 30 day free program.

Male speaker: That’s pretty good. But I’ve been to $5000 courses that aren’t a shade on that course.

Male speaker: Yeah.

Male speaker: On that free course.

Tim: Eugene, do you know Ed?

Eugene: Yes, I do.

Tim: What’s Ed’s program, what’s it do in kind of simple terms?

Eugene: In simple terms, it’s a 30 day program and each day there’s some videos and things to actually walk you through and it’s essentially a beginner’s guide to search engine optimisation. So it’s a…

Tim: Ooh.

Male speaker: I actually, I think I’d go one step further. I think it’s an online guide to helping people setup an online business.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: What if you don’t want an online business, you just want a website?

Male speaker: Well it’ll help you do that too.

Tim: Will it?

Male speaker: Yeah, but go somewhere else if you just want a website.

Tim: Yeah, okay.

Male speaker: But if you want to make money, that’s the…

Tim: What you said in layman’s terms is what a lot of small businesses are looking for, so this is pretty interesting stuff. You know, get ranked, get a website, get ranked high in Google and in 30 days, you know, have it done, job done, you know, sit back and enjoy the ride. Yeah? Is that the idea?

Male speaker: That’s the idea.

Tim: Right.

Male speaker: I mean, their USP is to have made your first ten bucks in inside 30 days.

Luke: Yep.

Male speaker: And it sounds funny but I reckon $10 online is like halfway to $10,000 online. Most people never make a dollar and a lot of the ones who make one dollar have figured out enough…

Luke: Yep.

Male speaker: …that they can repeat and go from there.

Male speaker: Rinse and repeat, okay.

Male speaker: But, as you said, because there’s a lot of technical stuff, particularly in this whole search engine optimisation game, so a part of it is just immersing yourself in a step by step program that actually breaks it all down for you. So that by the end of 30 days you’ve lived in this world for 30 days and you know the basics of what you need to do to move forward.

Tim: Do you know what I love about this whole Ed Dale thing? It’s the fact that there is so much goodness out there on the Internet and this reminds me of it. I mean, I’ve subscribed to the 30 day challenge, I’ve been receiving the emails. I haven’t done it yet but I’ve looked at it and I’ve seen just the wealth of information this guy gives away. What’s in there?

Luke: Oh, there is so much stuff, there’s a heap of information. I’ve done bits and pieces of it and I, and even as, you know, I’ve been doing web design and search engine optimisation for a good, you know, probably…

Tim: Lifetime.

Luke: …seven or eight years.

Tim: Maybe not a lifetime.

Luke: And even I got a lot out of it.

Tim: So what’s in it for…by the way, guys, we’re not being paid by Ed Dale. In fact, we don’t even know him. Oh, you’ve met him?

Luke: No, no.

Tim: You haven’t?

Luke: No.

Tim: Okay. So we don’t know him but it is interesting. I think the point is that…what’s in it for Ed to give away so much, is there anything, or?

Luke: Well I think what Ed does is he will set up affiliate partnerships, like with the guys from Market Samurai.

Tim: Right.

Luke: Yeah, Market Samurai is used in the 30 day challenge. You can use other free software applications but…

Tim: Right, okay.

Luke: Market Samurai cuts down the time it takes to do keyword research…

Tim: So if you buy Market Samurai, Ed’s going to get a cut of that?

Luke: Yeah, correct.

Tim: And great. And good, so he should.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: It is. And it just reminds us, we were talking about this as we were listening, was the fact that the Internet is full of so much goodness, you know.

Luke: Yeah, yep.

Tim: Don’t buy magazines.

Luke: No.

Tim: There’s a blog. For every possible interest topic you may have, there’ll be a blog.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: You know. And it was updated yesterday, not three months ago like a magazine. Because, you know, as we all know, magazine, you know, the lead time to get a magazine to the store is weeks, if not months. Whereas, you know, this…and it’s amazing, I’m still amazed if I go and give a talk in front of a whole lot of business owners or marketers, the amount that don’t use blogs.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: You know.

Luke: Yeah, you know, find the people that are the experts in your field and follow them, or listen to them, like you are now.

Tim: Yes, very good, Luke.

Luke: Anyway, let’s head back to Ben and Eugene. We asked Eugene what are the top three things to get your ranking first page in Google.

Eugene: Top one is, the number one thing is actually just get out great content.

Luke: Yeah.

Eugene: Like there’s a lot of people out there which are just trying to put out rubbish, just purely just to rank in the search engines. But, fundamentally, and Google says it, we say it, put out good quality content.

Luke: Yeah.

Eugene: That’s absolutely number one. You do that, you know, that’s…you’re halfway there.

Luke: Yep.

Eugene: Number two is do your keyword research. Like literally if you’re going to pick a keyword out of the top of your head, there’s a 99% chance that you are going to…that keyword is going to suck, it’s not going to have traffic, it’s not going to have any commercial value to you, it’s not going to bring you in the leads.

Tim: Or it’ll be too competitive.

Eugene: Or it will more than likely, you’ve just…you’ve got no hope in hell of ranking on the home page for that keyword.

Tim: Is it fair to say keyword is really not, it’s really key phrase?

Eugene: It’s grammatically incorrect. A keyword can be three words.

Male speaker: Yeah.

Male speaker: Yeah.

Male speaker: Yeah, it’s a keyword phrase.

Tim: Because keyword, to own any keyword, we’re just really kidding ourselves, aren’t we?

Male speaker: Yeah.

Luke: And just so our listeners…so we make sure our listeners know what we’re talking about…

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: …a keyword is essentially what someone is going to pop into the search box of Google.

Male speaker: Yeah, so.

Male speaker: Yep.

Male speaker: Exactly right.

Tim: Yeah.

Male speaker: Okay.

Tim: So key phrase really should…

Male speaker: Yeah.

Tim: Is where it’s at.

Male speaker: We call it a keyword but in the industry we’re actually meaning often three and four word phrases.

Tim: Yeah.

Male speaker: Yeah.

Tim: You whacky industry…

Male speaker: Yeah, we’re crazy. Watch us kids go.

Male speaker: Look at you.

Male speaker: Oh hang, we got to number…

Male speaker: Two, I think.

Eugene: Two, so number three is get your keyword in the title. That’s the most important place to actually put it.

Tim: What title?

Eugene: This is…and this is where it gets a bit technical and geeky because I…

Male speaker: Yep.

Eugene: This is the one thing, they do this, they get…this is the big…

Tim: See this red button?

Eugene: Yep.

Tim: See this red button?

Eugene: Yep.

Tim: I push that red button, you fall through the floor, okay.

Eugene: Okay. Without explaining exactly how to do it, when you visit a webpage and you’ve got your web browser, whether it’s Internet Explorer or Firefox or whatever you’re using, the actual text that appears in the menu bar, that is the title of the web page. So that’s not…

Tim: So that’s sort of like forward slash, blah, blah, blah.

Male speaker: No, no.

Male speaker: Above the www.yourdomain, there’s a bit above that.

Male speaker: No, no, no.

Male speaker: It normally says dash Internet Explorer at the end.

Male speaker: Yeah.

Male speaker: Not the address.

Luke: In I it’s got a blue background.

Tim: Yep.

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: And yours says Noble Samurai?

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: Microsoft Internet…no, no, it just says Noble Samurai…

Male speaker: Yeah, Noble Samurai is the keyword for that website, yes. So that’s the, yeah, that’s the keyword.

Tim: Why would that be the keyword for the website when people aren’t going to be going looking for Noble Samurai, they’re going to be looking for how do I get to the top of Google?

Male speaker: For keyword research.

Male speaker: And we put…we’d funnel most of our people through to MarketSamurai.com domain. So the Noble Samurai is essentially the company…

Male speaker: Just a corporate portal, yeah.

Tim: Okay, yep.

Male speaker: Obviously…

Male speaker: Did we finish on number three?

Male speaker: Sorry. Sorry, Eugene.

Tim: Were you going to do top how many, Eugene?

Male speaker: Do you think it would…

Eugene: Sorry? No, I…

Tim: Are you going to keep going?

Eugene: No, I’d say add just one more thing to that list.

Male speaker: Yeah.

Eugene: You know, so there’s getting it in your title in your content. And the last thing is build links, you know, I think if you get linked, people link into your website, and if you’ve done number one correctly, you’ve created great content, then you’re halfway there, you’ve got something worth linking to.

Tim: You know how you get those emails that say, you know, oh, would you like to link to my website or I’d like to link to yours?

Eugene: Yes.

Tim: I actually delete them and think, oh, it’s just spam. But it actually is someone making effort, is it, generally speaking, to link?

Male speaker: Generally it’s one of two situations. There are bits of software out there which basically…

Male speaker: Spam you.

Male speaker: …spam you. And so they work out, who’s everyone’s ranking for this keyword and they will just automate the process for sending out emails to do that link exchange process. Or they are hired SEO firms, you know, generally people in India who, you know, they’re being paid for every link that they get back to a website.

Male speaker: We ignore them too, yep.

Tim: Right, okay.

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: Okay.

Male speaker: Yep.

Luke: Just going back to your product, so essentially you had an idea for a product, you met someone who had basically a list of 50,000-odd people…

Male speaker: Yep.

Luke: …that you had to market to, so essentially you’ve got your market before you develop your products.

Male speaker: Yes.

Luke: In a pretty good position to be.

Male speaker: Yep.

Luke: Unlike possibly a lot of our listeners, or some. So I guess you probably…you may or may not have hit a ceiling with that market. Are there other avenues that you’re using apart from Ed Daly and 30 day challenge to market Samurai?

Male speaker: Yep. So, well, yeah, yes. What we’ve done is we’ve essentially done what we call a bowling pin strategy, which we have used the results we have achieved, you know, with the joint venture that we ran with Ed Dale and then asked him for referrals. It’s like who else, you know, would be interested in this particular product so he has introduced us to his friends and then we’ve asked them and then they’ve introduced us to their friends and so…

Tim: This sounds a bit pyramid style, we’re talking here.

Male speaker: That’s right, this is an Amway meeting. You get to podcast.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. Put that detergent away or I’ll push this red button.

Male speaker: And so we, you know, we…our main…it would be fair to say that the major business driver in terms of getting new leads into our business to now has been through that JV network and networking and doing promotions with people.

Luke: For our listeners who don’t know what a JV is?

Male speaker: A joint venture.

Luke: So essentially you’re leveraging essentially your network to increase your list.

Male speaker: Yep.

Luke: Perhaps you’d like to talk about your list?

Male speaker: Yeah, well I’ve…

Luke: You place a lot of emphasis on that.

Male speaker: I’m…previous to me working, well at Noble Samurai, like I actually worked for quite a successful online business called propertyinvesting.com run buy a guy called Steve McKnight.

Luke: Yes. Read a couple of his books.

Male speaker: Yeah.

Luke: Yep.

Male speaker: So, yeah, bestselling author. And he…I worked in there and I started off as a technical guy and then moved sort of into the online marketing role in his organisation. And he had a list of 40,000 people and over the, you know, whatever, the three or four years that I was there, like I saw how, you know, through the use of these direct marketing techniques that you can turn that into a, you know, a five, six, seven million dollar a year business really really easily if you just take care of the people on your list, you’re giving them good information, got a call to action every now and then.

So when I left that position I knew how to, you know, how important it was to have a database of people to actually market to. So when I had the opportunity to do this thing with Ed Dale, like strange enough, as you said, like it wasn’t about the product, like you actually wouldn’t want to actually create a product around keyword research at all. When you do any market research around it it’s actually a really lousy industry. But I knew what the value of a list is. So if I had the opportunity to JV with someone to create my own list in a very short space of time, like it took, you know, Steve McKnight, you know, six years or something to develop his list of 40,000 people. We, you know…

Male speaker: We’re about 95,000.

Male speaker: We just crossed 95,000 people…

Male speaker: Cool.

Male speaker: …on the Noble Samurai list. So in a very short amount of time that’s compressed, you know…

Luke: That’s owners of the software?

Male speaker: No.

Male speaker: No, no. There’s about 20,000 people that have purchased the software.

Luke: Yep.

Male speaker: Yeah.

Tim: How do you maintain the…is it a clean list and how do you maintain it so that it is relatively clean?

Male speaker: We use AWeber which is a, you know…

Tim: Yep.

Male speaker: …is an email service that you, you know, pay for, and they manage all that sort of stuff for you on subscriptions and things for you, yeah.

Tim: Okay, yep. And tell me, so you’ve got this list, and many small businesses like know the importance of a list but rarely kind of utilise it.

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: I’ve told the story I think on a previous show where I came across a lady at a tradeshow who was capturing everybody’s information in an Excel spreadsheet and I said, “What are you going to do with it”, and she said, “I really don’t know”. So she knew the importance of the list but actually using that list is another thing. And, you know, you can send out the odd email but actually creating a campaign around it can be quite difficult. So…

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: …is that something that you guys specialise in in actually turning that list into…

Male speaker: It’s something that…

Tim: …into magic?

Male speaker: It’s something that we do internally. It’s not something that we, you know, facilitate through our software.

Tim: Yep.

Male speaker: But if I can give a couple of pointers to people out there. And because it always blows my mind just how many people don’t build a list. Even if you are a hairdresser, oh, no, you should just be keeping a list of people who, you know, your customers so you can like send them offers and say, hey…

Tim: Your hair is getting long, you know.

Male speaker: Or, hey, we’re really quiet on a Tuesday, you come get your haircut on a Tuesday…

Tim: Yeah.

Male speaker: …I’ll give you ten bucks off.

Luke: Dentists should be working their list.

Tim: Everyone should be. Everyone should be.

Male speaker: So in propertyinvestor.com I learnt a couple of just interesting ideas that I think have been valuable for us. And one is the idea of a trust bank account. Right, so every time you put out a great piece of content to your email list and, you know, you direct people to a website and you’re giving something, like you’re not asking for something, you were giving, that is like a bank account, you’re making a deposit in that trust bank account. Every time you ask them to do something which obviously has a financial outcome or some, you know, personal, yeah, outcome for yourself, you’re making a deposit. So the key thing, just like…

Male speaker: Making a withdrawal in that case.

Male speaker: Yeah, making…sorry, making a withdrawal.

Male speaker: Yeah.

Male speaker: So the key thing is to keep your account way into credit, you know, way into credit. Like you see a lot of Internet marketing…

Tim: So when you say give…

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: Because there’s give and there’s give. I mean, you want to give in a way that doesn’t cost you an arm and a leg.

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: You want to see some return. So when you say give, what are some things that a typical business could give, clearly like a free eBook?

Male speaker: Yeah, so information that is useful that you’re a relevant authority to talk about. So, I don’t know, if you’re a hairdresser, you know, tips about, you know, doing hairstyle, you know, how to, yeah, how to style your hair.

Tim: Or if you just spent $180 on a haircut, how to actually maintain it for the next five weeks…

Male speaker: Yeah, exactly.

Tim: …so you look good, not just the day you walked out your salon and those sorts of things.

Male speaker: Yeah, exactly, yeah, yep.

Luke: My wife would definitely read that. She just spent $130 and she wasn’t happy so.

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: Hello to Kim. Hey, so, yeah, what else can you give away for free? Because I think that’s interesting…

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: …that’s classic permission marketing stuff that Seth Godin talked about years ago which is like give something in order to get something, in this case, some contact information and then give something more in order to get something more back…

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: And slowly build up a profile of your customer.

Male speaker: Yeah, yep.

Tim: So what else can you give?

Male speaker: So there’s, I mean, there’s obviously your own content that you, you know, you’ve created. So for us, you know, we put up blog posts, you know, with just a webpage on our website that we give away some great information about the stuff our customers are interested in which is obviously, you know, Internet marketing and search engine optimisation. So, you know, you can apply that to whatever business that you’re in. So there’s information on your site, there is information on other’s people site. Just even, you don’t have to create all the content, you know, if you are…if you’re passionate about your particular area of expertise and you’re just surfing the web anyway, you know, just finding little, great little titbits and things and maybe writing a bit of a description about them and just sending it out, just helping people solve the problems as they relate to, you know, your particular business.

Luke: Just on the trust aspect, I’m on your email list, I’m one of the 95,000 and I actually own your software, but that’s an aside, I notice that you guys do actually, you do promote other people’s offers.

Male speaker: Yes.

Luke: And you do do some affiliate stuff and you’re quite open about that.

Male speaker: Yep.

Luke: Do you have some rules in-house about what you promote?

Male speaker: Yeah. I mean, as I said, to be honest, like it’s actually been a…it’s actually been a bit of a headache for us, you know, to do that. You know, we do have some rules, like fundamentally, you know, we have to actually use the product, like strangely enough. Or at least have an ability to evaluate the product. There’s a lot of people that will just sell to people on their database without even, you know…

Tim: They’ve got no idea what the product it.

Male speaker: No idea. So we’re going to recommend good stuff that has to also be relevant to, you know, to our list. But, to be honest, like it hasn’t really worked that well for us. So I think from a trust bank account perspective, I think, you know, promoting other people’s stuff, particularly, I think, in the market space that we’re in, which is online marketing, which I think people already realise is very insulated, you know, everyone’s promoting each other’s stuff, that, you know, has probably resulted in more negative, you know, more of a withdrawal in the bank account than a deposit and certainly financially like if it’s just look at the pure numbers like it is much more profitable for us to deliver great content and, you know, promote our own software through that than it has been in promoting other people’s content. So a bit controversial.

Tim: Lukey.

Luke: Timbo.

Tim: This is an interesting one. And I’ve been kind of listening and absolutely content is king.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Absolutely. It’s the Elvis of marketing. But, you know, it’s all very well for businesses who use the Internet and the whole online world, you know, almost daily to talk to their customers, but there’ll be a lot of listeners who have businesses or are responsible for the marketing of businesses who aren’t that savvy with the online world. The online world is great for giving stuff, you know.

Luke: Yeah. I mean, it’s just a facility though to give.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: I mean, if you…a mate of mine, for example, owns a tomato farm, he can put together a free recipe book, for example. It doesn’t necessarily have to be using…

Tim: That’s a good example.

Luke: …the Internet as the publishing channel.

Tim: Vessel.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Yeah. And it probably, well it’s more expensive to print a recipe book…

Luke: Sure is, yeah.

Tim: …than it is to probably create an eBook and distribute it via some kind of email responder for when someone signs up. That said, I guess the point is I’m just conscious of those listeners who are doing a lot of their promotion above the line…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …and aren’t able to kind of create this stuff. But that said, I think, you know, creating a book isn’t that hard. I came across an idea last year where you get people to contribute their thinking…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …around a particular topic…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …and that forms the content of a book.

Luke: The book writes itself.

Tim: The book writes itself. You know, you write a forward.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Or maybe even get someone else to write the forward. But that’s a great way of writing a book which all of a sudden for an offline business, or a business that spends most of their money, say, on advertising or direct marketing or telemarketing, they’ve all of a sudden got a book and that’s pretty cool. So they haven’t paid for the book to be written, they’ve just got to, you know, get it printed.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And there’s even some great one off, you know, printing, online printing shops now that do one offs.

Luke: Low runs, yeah.

Tim: Yeah, low runs.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: But, you know, like I love the idea of, I did this with a parenting tip idea a few years ago when I had young children. I thought, gosh, I should get…and all our friends had young kids, I thought I’m going to email every single one of my colleagues and friends who I know who’ve got young kids and get their best parenting tip.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Which I did, and I never turned it into a book. It’s still, the information is still there. But I’ve got about 100 parenting tips.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Yeah, they’re fantastic.

Luke: Timbo, did you register the domain name?

Tim: Just for all your listeners, don’t go registering parenting tips. No, it’s not available. I did look into all that. But, yeah, I just didn’t get around to it. It’s just one of those, you know, ideas that…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …I happened to have that some get off the ground and others don’t. But there’s 100 parenting tips sitting there somewhere on my computer that would be very easy to turn into some kind of whitepaper or eBook or whatever and. So, yeah, it’s not that hard. And it’s fun. And it is a great way of giving to your clients and your prospects.

Luke: Back we go.

Tim: Back to the boys.

Male speaker: There’s a reciprocation thing that comes in though. If you’ve got…if you’re doing joint ventures with other players, there is a reasonable expectation that you would reciprocate and that’s part of the game.

Luke: Yep.

Male speaker: And so, you know, you have to…and that’s why we so aggressively pump out good content because, you know, I often work to the four to one rule. You know, I want to give out four pieces of great content before I actually ask for something back.

Tim: Hey, Ben?

Ben: Yeah.

Tim: What are your three favourite websites? Honestly?

Ben: Keep talking and I’ll have a good list for you.

Tim: Eugene, you?

Eugene: Me?

Tim: No, no, not a website question for you.

Eugene: Yep.

Tim: Three favourite gadgets?

Eugene: Three favourite gadgets?

Tim: Yeah.

Male speaker: Oh, gadget kind.

Eugene: My iPhone.

Tim: Yeah.

Eugene: My Mac and my Kindle.

Tim: You’re Kindle?

Male speaker: Kindle?

Eugene: Yep.

Male speaker: Have you got it here?

Eugene: No, I don’t, but…

Tim: What’s that?

Eugene: Oh, actually this is quite a good gadget. This is my Livescribe Pulse pen.

Tim: Listeners, can you see that? Describe…oh, is that one of those ones that…

Eugene: Yes.

Tim: Explain that.

Eugene: This is really really cool. Imagine a pen where when you write down in your notepad actually records audio at the same time as you are writing something.

Tim: You are a geek.

Male speaker: It does more than that, it goes on.

Male speaker: You’re the geek’s geek.

Eugene: And it goes on, right, so I can go back, and like three months ago, and actually touch like…

Male speaker: The paper?

Eugene: The paper, the writing that happened, and it will actually play back the audio that was being spoken at that very moment of time. It records 200 hours of audio at (35:00).

Male speaker: Two hundred hours of audio.

Tim: Now, let me just understand this. So you just go write, like we would all write.

Eugene: Yep.

Tim: We would get a pen.

Eugene: Yep.

Tim: And some paper.

Eugene: Yep.

Tim: And write. And then you would actually…that pen while you’re writing is recording what you’re writing?

Eugene: Yes. And you can plug it into a computer and every single page…

Tim: Ah, stop it.

Eugene: Every single page…

Male speaker: Comes up on your computer.

Eugene: …it comes up on your computer.

Tim: The word comes up on…

Eugene: No, no, like…it’s like a, almost like a PDF file, all right.

Tim: Yeah, like a scan.

Eugene: Yeah, like a scan.

Tim: Yeah.

Eugene: And it does optical character recognition. So you can search your own handwriting, right, and you can play the audio and stuff on that as well.

Male speaker: You can click on what was written there and it will give you the audio from wherever you were six months.

Eugene: Yeah. So it’s great if you’re a consultant. Because they go, oh, we didn’t ask for that, and I’m going, yes, you did. Is this your voice? Hello?

Tim: Yeah, you know how they invented the space pen, to write in space.

Luke: The US army spent millions of dollars…

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: …developing the biro.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: And what did the Russians do, Tim?

Tim: Just used a pencil. It’s quite cool, I like that.

Luke: I stole your gag, didn’t I?

Tim: Yeah, yeah. So that’s pretty cool. What was that called?

Eugene: It’s called a Livescribe Pulse.

Tim: And how much?

Eugene: They’re about $300 at Officeworks.

Tim: At Officeworks?

Eugene: Yeah.

Tim: And, what, no affiliate program?

Eugene: Nah. Unfortunately.

Luke: Coming back…

Tim: Officeworks, that’s like Office Depot or something?

Luke: Just coming back to marketing briefly, Timbo.

Tim: No, no, I don’t want to. I’m not…listen, mate…

Eugene: This is much more fun actually.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, I don’t want to.

Luke: Are there any brands that you guys aspire to being similar to?

Tim: Luke, Luke…

Luke: The word Mac is going to come out right now, isn’t it?

Male speaker: Yeah, I mean, like it sounds really silly, Luke, but, yeah, absolutely, Apple like, you know, we joke about it, but in terms of Apple’s marketing and what they stand for. They can release a new product like Snow Leopard and you have actually mentally bought it at the time that you actually watch a keynote or Steve Jobs talking about, you know, the product and just how he goes about that. And I don’t know if it’s even come across in our marketing and our videos, but every time we launch a major product, we don’t call it a Steve note, a keynote, we call it a Brent note, because Brent’s our marketing guy. And I remember once we had to release a new feature which was, you know, that Market Samurai was, I don’t know, three times faster or something like that which is, it’s really boring, you know, to actually say it’s three times faster. How do you, you know…

Male speaker: Hang on, Apple did it with their new phone.

Male speaker: Exactly. And so…that is exactly right. So I remembered watching the keynote of Apple and Steve going on and he showed, you know, showed all these graphs moving out and he showed what that actually meant and how he articulated the benefit of that and we virtually copied, you know, you know not word for word but the same principle how we actually done that…

Tim: It’s amazing, interesting, you know, like brands, everyone says Apple. And, you know, the world is pretty big and yet we all keep coming back to Apple. I run a lot of marketing and sort of branding workshops and invariably Apple gets mentioned, Steve Jobs gets mentioned and then it moves onto Branson and Virgin brand and then after that people are sort of looking around and going, right, what other brands can we sort of reflect on or kind of learn from. But it’s amazing that we, when you go away and have a think about it there’s lots of kind of smaller brands that are really very cool but I suppose at the time you kind of defer to the big ones.

Male speaker: Mmm.

Tim: And Apple do do it very well.

Male speaker: They do.

Male speaker: And talking brands…

Male speaker: Sorry, I just need to say…

Male speaker: Yeah, yeah…

Male speaker: So we’ll pick up from, I just need…

Tim: So, Ben, enough gadget talk.

Ben: Sure.

Tim: Tell us about your favourite website that is…actually I’m going to change my question now.

Luke: Let’s pick one that’s relevant to our listeners that…

Tim: Correct. I mean, I like marketing products, I like productivity tools.

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: Something that’s going to improve people’s business life.

Male speaker: Sure. What have you got?

Male speaker: There’s a bunch of them that I could recommend. Probably one that’s just generally useful that a lot of people should be using, if you just go to google.com/reader and what you get is the Google blog reading tool, which probably sounds really geeky, but what you can easily do, if you use that tool you can use it for brand monitoring, you can set up a little search so that if your brand name is Allison Monkhouse Funerals, you can put that as a search phrase and anybody anytime talks about that you’ll come into your blog reader as a feed. You can setup just the blogs that you’re interested in and it becomes this one central hub that you go and check your Google reader account and everything flows back into it. And it’s a great way of both keeping on top of your topic matter, so you’re an expert, but also monitoring your brand. And from a general use perspective, I think that’s a pretty hot…

Tim: Okay.

Male speaker: …hot little tip.

Tim: Give us a few more, you sound like you’ve got a few productivity tools up your sleeve.

Male speaker: If people are running projects, so they’re managing lots of people around the place, websites like Basecamp.

Tim: Yeah, it’s cool, isn’t it?

Male speaker: Is good. There’s another one that we use internally for our projects and just love it, called Pivotal Tracker. If they go to Pivotal Tracker, that’s good. Yeah, so they’re sort of some productivity ones.

Tim: Okay. All right. What about any kind of…do you use Jing, screen capture…

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: …technology or?

Male speaker: Yep. We use Jing and Jing is for any user is great. It’s just a way to capture your screen. But often what you’ll…what I use Jing for effectively is if I need to critique something, so if I’m looking at something visual, whether it be a website or some graphics, it’s hard to often mark it up and put little arrows everywhere, and you can do that with Jing, but it’s often very easy just to grab a video, like you press go on Jing and it will record what you say and the movements of your mouse and you can move your mouse around and point to things and scroll up and down and basically the other person gets a little video and it’s like they’ve seen what you use. So that’s really handy. Other little tools that we’re using a lot, there’s just a common tool that a lot of people use called GoToMeeting, which lets me just share the desktop of my computer. And so we do a lot of coaching that way. We’ll be teaching somebody something and we’ll bring up our screen and run through a presentation and show them some software and whatever else. Those sort of productivity tools we’re getting a lot of use out of. And if I can plug one little Mac tool?

Tim: Go for it. Here we go, Lukey.

Male speaker: There is, if you are doing any sort of training, if you’re training people how to do stuff there’s a piece of software called ScreenFlow. ScreenFlow is the reason that I became a Mac user. It is fantastic.

Luke: It is very cool. I’ve used it and recommended it to you before, Timbo.

Tim: Yeah? Is that the one where you sit down the bottom right hand corner and you can visually…

Luke: Yeah, (41:02), yep.

Tim: Yeah, right.

Male speaker: Yep.

Tim: Yeah, that is cool.

Male speaker: Yeah, that’s very cool.

Male speaker: So ScreenFlow is like, it allows you to…you can basically…it’s like Jing but you actually can see the person who is providing the instruction. So…

Male speaker: Yeah, ScreenFlow…whereas Jing is good for the quick nonprofessional video, just between two colleagues, Jing enables you to get essentially very close to professional video in terms of a training presentation. Once you’ve, you know, spent an hour to learn how it works, create it in really quick time. It’s really taken…made what you would all, you know, it’s taken a whole bunch of work that you’d have to go to professionals to before, and so you’d never do it for cost and time and everything else and bought it in-house and so you can produce really good quality materials, high quality stuff, you know, just off a very, off a, you know, a one or two thousand dollar Mac.

Tim: Wow, cool. Lukey, any other questions for the lads?

Luke: What do you see in the future for Market Samurai and your marketing efforts?

Male speaker: I think I mentioned to you, I think, the…our vision for Market Samurai, even though it’s known as a keyword research tool, is to really make it the kind of thing where you’ve got this great idea for a website or a niche or, you know, just a, you know, a business and to sit down with our product and after spending a couple of hours with the tool using all the different modules, actually walk away with a website, a domain, some content on your website, some links that are going to come in and build up your website and really give you an ability to really sort of, you know, produce businesses almost at the speed of thought, that’s where we really want to go to with the tool.

Tim: That is very cool. And I’m not sure whether it’s…we were talking about this on the way up in the car, Luke, but I’m not sure whether it’s too advanced for the general populous, but the idea of buying a domain name and then having the opportunity to develop it, add value to it quickly and easily and then having the ability to either enjoy some advertising or affiliate revenue offered or flip it. That was a bit of an in joke. If you listened to our last podcast, Luke is going to flipper.com. But, yeah, that is big time. You know, I own 100 domain names plus and, you know, it does my head in to think that I just really don’t have the technical knowhow or really wish to sit in front of a computer for hours and develop.

Luke: And not to turn this into an advertorial but I think one of the great things about Market Samurai is it allows you to do your research before you actually go and spend your ten bucks on a domain and find out if there’s need to. So that’s definitely one of the things I’ve liked about the piece of software.

Tim: Yeah. You’ve given the old Samurai boys a bit of a pump.

Luke: You know, this is why we get people onboard. They’ve got a good product and they’ve certainly done some good marketing.

Tim: Oh, that’s lovely. That’s lovely. Anything else you want to say to them?

Luke: That’s all from me, Timbo.

Tim: You sure? Give them something.

Luke: Guys, thanks very much for coming in. Appreciate your time.

Male speaker: Yeah, good on you fellas, thanks.

Male speaker: Absolute pleasure. Thanks for having us on.

Male speaker: Thanks for having us.

Male speaker: When’s that product going to be available?

Luke: So, Timbo, that was the guys from Market Samurai.

Tim: Mate, it was. And I geeked out a little bit, got a bit cross eyed every now and then, but that’s okay. That’s okay, I’m allowed do that.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: You held the ship.

Luke: I loved it.

Tim: You did love it. It was just right up your alley and like…

Luke: My kind of boys, so, yeah.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. It was like it was podcast porn for you, wasn’t it? I think I’ve mentioned porn twice in one episode. One about the mo.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And now about that. But we’ll let that go.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: iTunes hopefully won’t hear that.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Is it a bad week? Hey, what I did want to say, one of the things I found myself saying a little bit during that interview was this notion of layman’s terms and how we should kind of…and it was particularly in relation to the content writing. It’s really important to me, I remember…early days in advertising I had this boss and, you know, I’d bring in copy and he’d say, Timmy…

Luke: Copy, not coffee.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, coffee as well. Very clever, very quick, Luke.

Luke: Thanks.

Tim: But I’d bring in copy and he would say, you know, Timmy, what does that mean or what does that mean and I’d sort of look at him and go but you know what it means and he’d look at me and goes, I might know what it means but will our readers or clients or customers who we’re trying to sell to know what it means. And it really taught me a great lesson, which was just keep your sales copy, all your copywriter, your web copy, whatever it is, simple.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And clear. As if you were writing to a friend.

Luke: Friend, yeah.

Tim: So really important to me. And that’s why I…I try not to dumb things down too much…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …but I do try and bring it down to a level that may be like…they always say like an eight year old will understand, maybe a bit older, but.

Luke: Yep, yep.

Tim: So, yeah, good interview, Lukey, you did love it. Hey, Haul winner.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: We’ve got a drum roll.

Luke: Adam Georgio. Congratulations, Adam, you are the winner of the Haul MacBook sleeve.

Tim: Wow.

Luke: So…

Tim: That’s a good prize.

Luke: Yeah, it is, it is indeed, very cool.

Tim: Yeah, very cool, yeah, yeah. We won’t say it again…

Luke: No.

Tim: …but we do want one.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: So what it is, it’s a MacBook sleeve made out of a mobile billboard.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: So they’re unique. There’s not two the same.

Luke: No, indeed.

Tim: So well done, Adam. Thanks for leaving a review on iTunes. It was a ripper review.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Clearly showed that he’d listened to the show and really was benefiting from it and he’s from…was he from Salsa Studios or something?

Luke: Yes. Which sounds like a web development agency so…

Tim: Or a dance company.

Luke: Thanks for listening, Adam. And another thing, we’re going to offer three licences to market Samurai software.

Tim: Ooh, nice.

Luke: If people leave a review. Make sure you please leave your review and send us an email once you have, telling us that you’ve left a glowing review.

Tim: Where do they email to?

Luke: They can email it to questions@smallbusinessbigmarketing.com.

Tim: Okay, so that’s a written review on iTunes. It doesn’t mean it has to be a glowingly positive review, Luke.

Luke: No. Constructive.

Tim: Constructive. You know, we’re open to…well certainly Luke has got thick skin. I get a bit upset, don’t I?

Luke: Yeah, sometimes.

Tim: I’ll try not to.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: But just leave a review on iTunes, written review. Last but not least, Lukey, Bali, a healthy approach to marketing, April 11 to 16, 2010.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: 2010. I would love to see some listeners come along to that.

Luke: Definitely.

Tim: And if you do, listeners, come along, register to come along to this retreat, then Luke and I are going to give you a free spotlight. And spotlight is our product where we review your business and make an entire show just on your business and giving you marketing tips and tricks. No one else gets to hear it, we send it to you as an audio file. Normally $497.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: In this case, gratis. Is it gratis?

Luke: Gratis.

Tim: Free, guys. All you need to do is register and come along on a healthy approach to marketing in April next year. You can go to healthyapproachtomarketing.com, check it all out. It is my, probably my biggest marketing workshop retreat for the year. That includes a whole lot of wellbeing stuff. For the one off price you actually get like accommodation, all your food, all your board, we get massages and meditation and yoga and, gosh, the list goes on, mate. It’s going to be…

Luke: Sounds fantastic, Timbo.

Tim: And, Lukey?

Luke: Yes.

Tim: You’re not coming. Only because you’re working. I’d love you to be there. So, yeah, that’s a freebie. If you’re a listener…

Luke: If my boss is listening by the way. No.

Tim: Can I go? It’s just after Easter actually so you could tag it on.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: But, yeah, look, do register. Just indicate when you register, when you email me to say that you’re a listener of the podcast and we will put your business in the spotlight and you’ll get a 20 minute show, small business big marketing show, 100% based on your business after we’ve asked you a few questions.

Luke: Good stuff, Tim. I think that’s about enough from you about that.

Tim: There’s a lot of it, I know.

Luke: You’ve given it a fair hook.

Tim: I have. Thanks, Luke. Thanks for just being so kind and generous.

Luke: No worries, mate. Guys, thanks for listening. We look forward to catching up with you next time.

Tim: Later.

We chat with Scott Kilmartin from Haul about how he’s turning old billboards into highly sought after street wear. Scott shares some of his marketing secrets including how “seeding” upcoming music artists is helping promote the Haul brand to his target audience.

Up for grabs is a Macbook Sleeve – just leave a review on iTunes, send us an email with your name, address and iTunes ID, and you’ll be in the running to win.

Duration: 41:32

What We Mention

• Haul
• Scott Kilmartin (Twitter)
• Flippa (Buying and Selling Websites)
• Ideas Culture (Twitter)
• Sticky Names Workshop
• Crush It!: Why NOW Is the Time to Cash In on Your Passion
• Stuff White People Like
• Enquire About Spotilight

Podcast Transcription

Tim: Lukey, Lukey, Lukey. How are you, mate?

Luke: Good, Timbo. How are you, mate, more to the point?

Tim: Well very good, thank you for asking. A little melancholy.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: I wasn’t as sort of sprightly at the start as what I normally give. But, you know, there are reasons, there’s always reasons.

Luke: Would you like to share them?

Tim: I would, I would. But, first, before I do, before I vent, because I’m going to vent, I’ve had a crook old morning, you know, so…

Luke: You weren’t happy when you walked in.

Tim: No, no. And in the true spirit of Small Business Big Marketing honesty is what counts. And we will share, I will vent. But, mate, welcome back.

Luke: Thank you.

Tim: Holiday, yeah.

Luke: Yeah. Just had a week up in Eden, which is on the…

Tim: Lovely.

Luke: …New South Wales south coast.

Tim: Looking beautiful in your sarong.

Luke: Thanks.

Tim: My pleasure, my pleasure. Tell me, why holiday, mate, is there something going on?

Luke: Well actually, yeah, it’s a little bit of a break before I start work at flippa.com.

Tim: Flippa?

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Ooh, nice, nice.

Luke: So three weeks off and then starting work as marketing manager at Flippa.

Tim: Righto.

Luke: Which is a business that’s grown out of SitePoint.com.

Tim: Oh, you’re a name dropper, you are dropping all the big ones.

Luke: And essentially, if you’re not familiar, it’s essentially eBay for buying and selling websites.

Tim: Nice, okay. You know, Mick Jagger said to me once never drop a name.

Luke: Did he really?

Tim: Yep. Tell me, I love how you described it SitePoint for, what did you say, SitePoint for where?

Luke: eBay.

Tim: eBay for websites.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Yeah, great way of describing, trying to get an idea across. I think we’ve spoken about that before in, great book, Ideas that Stick, or Getting Ideas to Stick or something like that.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: But if you can compare something to something, people kind of immediately get what it is you’re saying. It’s a good exercise to do with your own business.

Luke: Yeah, I think it’s a good…it’s a good explanation for the uninitiated.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. So like, you know, Small Business Big Marketing is like Texas Chainsaw Massacre meets Titanic, you know. Or something like that. Hey, listen, I’m going to vent. Can I vent?

Luke: Yeah, go ahead.

Tim: Righto, okay. Oh, by the way, I’m say, I am sad, before I vent about what happened to me this morning, I am genuinely sad and I’ve been waiting for us to be recording and to express my…

Luke: I’m actually surprised you’ve kept it from me for this long, Timbo.

Tim: Yes, well, Luke, I want to share it with our listeners as well, because, listeners, Luke and I were going to work together and, yeah, he’s taken the big gig, you know, money, you know, chauffers, I don’t know what…I don’t know what the package involves but clearly clearly I couldn’t offer him what Flippa have offered him. And, look, the good news is…it’s not going to affect the podcast, is it?

Luke: Oh, no way known.

Tim: You sure?

Luke: Absolutely sure.

Tim: You sort of hesitated a tad.

Luke: Not at all, no, I’ve…

Tim: Look me in the eye, Luke.

Luke: Timbo, I aim to keep up this…

Tim: You looked at the microphone then and you didn’t look at me when you said it. Okay, promise our listeners, just look at the microphone and say…

Luke: Listeners, I promise I’m going to keep up this podcast as long as Timbo and I want to do it so…

Tim: Luke?

Luke: And as long as it remains interesting and informative.

Tim: Oh, yes, well that will, it will. You are so obedient too. You did, you looked at the microphone that entire time.

Luke: It’s like looking down the lens of the camera.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, looking at the barrel.

Luke: Correct.

Tim: Looking to all our beautiful listeners. So, yeah, that’s sad and…

Luke: It’s a nice new microphone too.

Tim: It is a nice new microphone. Listeners don’t care.

Luke: Mmm.

Tim: So, Luke, that is sad. This morning, okay, so this is a lesson in respecting your suppliers. And I don’t like the word suppliers anyway. So what happened is I was getting ready for a meeting which was completely the other side of town from me from where I live, but that’s okay, that’s not my client’s problem. But I rang up two hours prior to say just confirming the address and the agenda and he goes, oh look, we’re not going to do it. And it was like were you going to call me and tell me that…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …or was I just going to turn up and I’ve done all this work and what’s going on there. So, you know, it’s not my client’s problem that I live a long way from where the meeting is, not at all, that’s my problem. But there is a lesson here for all us small business owners to communicate clearly and I think freely with our partners. And by partners I do mean suppliers, you know.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Because we are going to get a better output.

Luke: Yeah, I think it comes down to respect, Timbo, you know.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: I think, as I said to you before, I used to have a web development business, you were actually one of my clients at the time.

Tim: I was, I was.

Luke: And, you know, the people that respected me and respected my business tended to get the best out of us. And I think that probably applies to most people, you know.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: You want to work with the people that want to work with you and that respect you.

Tim: Look, it’s a pretty obvious thing. But I think sometimes we forget it and I think if we do take the mindset as business owners that we have partners and we respect them and communicate with them and keep them along for the journey of running a business, we’re just going to get a better result. So enough of the venting, okay, so…oh, I’ve got another vent. I have.

Luke: One more?

Tim: Yeah, I think so. So this is about, listened to a new podcast this morning.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Oh, no, it wasn’t this morning. Last week, I don’t know why I’m saying this morning. But 37signals.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Which is this wonderful online brand, you know, that I have never known what they’ve done. But I like the name and it’s one of these brands that you kind of hear all around the place, you know, if you’re kind of…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …into the online world. They launched a podcast, right, and it went straight to No.1, which was infuriating because we’ve been No.2 for so long.

Luke: So you’re dirty at that to start with.

Tim: Yeah, I’m dirty at that that we’ve been trying to get to No.1 business podcast on iTunes. We’ve made it to No.2, that’s cool. They’ve gone straight to No.1 and that is the power of their brand.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: So I go, bloody ripper, new podcast from the 37signals guys, can’t wait to hear it, I reckon it was an absolute letdown.

Luke: Really?

Tim: Yeah, totally.

Luke: Didn’t like it? I actually haven’t listened to it, Timbo, so I’ll take your word for it.

Tim: Okay.

Luke: I do know that they are a good brand.

Tim: Look, I don’t doubt their brand and you told me they have brands like…

Luke: Basecamp.

Tim: Mate, that is an amazing product.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Beautiful brand, you know.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: But their podcast, I thought was really self indulgent. They still didn’t explain what 37signals is which I think…you can’t assume people know who you are, you know.

Luke: Yeah. So they haven’t set themself essentially?

Tim: No, they haven’t, no. And they just went straight into this kind of self indulgent talk about their different products and how they did it and stuff and it was…I didn’t find it captivating. I will listen to the next one. I’d be really interested to see if they hold that No.1 position for five or ten episodes or whether people will go, feeling a bit like me. I think the geeks will love it.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: But I…maybe, and that’s just who they’re appealing to but…

Luke: So is it really about trying to remain humble when you’ve got a big brand?

Tim: Wasn’t humble.

Luke: No, I’m saying, you know, should…are you saying they should still…you should still try to remain humble when you’ve developed a brand?

Tim: Yeah, I think absolutely. And I just think they just…it was just more in the way they communicated their brand. I think there was an assumption that you know who we are and you just want to hear some technical talk and, look, maybe that’s what their about, you know.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: But maybe they would have been better to stick to the online thing.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And maybe not gone down the track they are. Could be wrong. Have a listen, listeners, send us an abusive…

Luke: Don’t…

Tim: …email if you…oh, send Luke an abusive email.

Luke: Questions@SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com.

Tim: That’s it, that’s it.

Luke: Yeah. And whatever you do, don’t subscribe to their iTunes feed because it will actually knock us further down the rankings.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. And leave some feedback on our iTunes too because we would love you for it.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Now, listen, we’re going to get straight…now we’re going to get stuck into our guest.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: And after which I am going to announce, although it’s not ready, Luke, I am going to run a marketing workshop in the tropics.

Luke: Yes, you have done this just to spite me, haven’t you, Timbo?

Tim: I have, I have. I thought, Luke’s going to go and take the fulltime gig, I’m going to the tropics. I’m going to put on the loud Hawaiian shirt.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: It’s actually not in Hawaii but I’ll tell you a bit more about it after this interview.

Luke: Fantastic. Sounds very exciting, Timbo.

Tim: Because I am, I’m really excited about it.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And so interview guest, this guy is crazy, we love him.

Luke: Yes, Scott Kilmartin from Haul. He’s a…

Tim: Yes.

Luke: I’m really excited about this episode. Just as an aside, I actually read…

Tim: You say that about every episode.

Luke: Well I’m exceptionally excited about this one.

Tim: Okay.

Luke: As an aside, I actually read Gary Vaynerchuk’s book, new book, called “Crush It!”.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: And I think…I think Scott Kilmartin is absolutely crushing it with his brand…

Tim: Right.

Luke: …and with his products.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: He’s authentic, he’s passionate, he’s got some great novel marketing ideas and…

Tim: Mate, this is a small business guy who is just…who’s so willing to break the rules, to challenge the status quo and who doesn’t mind a word or two.

Luke: Yeah. And he’s also using social media really really well.

Tim: He’s…yeah, he’s got three…in fact he’s got three identities on Twitter. He’ll share the reason why during this interview. But he’s got Scott Kilmartin, he’s got Haul, which is his business.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And Gus the Boxer.

Luke: Gus the Boxer.

Tim: Why has he got his dog a Twitter ID, you will find out in this interview.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: Lukey, lovely to see you again.

Luke: You too, Timbo.

Tim: And we will be…

Luke: Don’t tear up.

Tim: I’m not going to tear up. And don’t you go changing. Here’s Scott.

Luke: Here’s Scott.

Tim: Welcome, Scott Kilmartin, from Haul.

Scott: Thank you, guys.

Tim: Our pleasure. Welcome aboard. Luke…

Luke: Welcome, Scott.

Scott: Hey, Luke.

Tim: …you will not get a word in tonight, so do you just want to say anything now?

Luke: And Haul is spelt, H-A-U-L?

Scott: Correct, yep.

Tim: H-U?

Luke: Not H-A-L-L.

Tim: Oh, okay. Okay. So, Scott, building accessories by hand by recycled materials would be what you do.

Scott: That’s the kind of elongated version. So we basically turn old billboards into messenger bags and laptop sleeves and beanbags. We use truck inner tubes, make them into…because they’re rubber, and turn them into again bags. We’ve just done a deal where we’re using old printing blankets that newspapers are printed on. They’re like a rubber sheet. And we’re making those into things like belts and wallets and…

Tim: So is it effectively finding old media, old printed media, is that the criteria for your raw material?

Scott: Yeah, look, it’s not necessarily media. It’s…the way we kind of work with things is can we get materials in a consistent way, can we get a lot of them without having to kind of be searching around rubbish dumps, we want to be able to get it by the tonne, and has it got something where people are going to…it’s got to have some wow factor about it. So are people going to look at a laptop sleeve and go, yeah, I can kind of see a bit of a billboard in it, it’s got something unique about it.

Tim: So how do you control that? Because clearly there are advertising agencies all over Australia, if not the world, creating billboards for their clients, you then go and say I’ll have those and turn them into a laptop sleeve or a bag, how do you control the design?

Scott: There’s a couple of issues there. One, initially when we first started out we faced a lot of IP issues. So we got all these billboards, let’s say you’re, I don’t know, you’re Austereo and you’ve got a Triple M billboard or a Fox billboard…

Tim: Overseas listeners, they are local radio stations.

Scott: Radio stations, yeah. If you…obviously they’ve got logos on them, they’ve got a whole lot of trademarks and bits and pieces and they, although now are happy for us to use those and actually have become kind of a client base for them, we’ve got our street wear stuff and we also do things for companies as well, but we’ll touch on that a bit later. But the biggest issue was they were…

Tim: How long are you planning on being here?

Scott: Oh, you never know. The thing is, I guess for us, getting hold of the materials we knew they were going to landfill but we couldn’t get access to them because all the brand managers are going well if we can’t control what happens to the brand afterwards, we’re not going to let you have them. So we faced a lot of hurdles there.

Tim: Wow, isn’t that interesting. That’s actually like, that’s what’s…that’s social media is causing all that at the moment, you know, losing control…

Scott: Control.

Tim: …of my brand.

Scott: Yeah.

Tim: It’s like get over it.

Scott: We…the bit…the story that I often tell is we got a whole lot of Kylie lingerie billboards when she did a deal with one of the lingerie companies, brought out a brand, I think they were called Love Kylie.

Luke: Yep.

Scott: And we get…they were there, they were in a storeroom about to be thrown out and we couldn’t get hold of them because the brand manager told me over the phone, she’s like well how do I know that this billboard is not going to end up covering some farmer’s hay out on a freeway somewhere, how do I know that you’re going to make products out of it and how do I know those products aren’t going to adversely affect our brands. So those were the little initial hurdles you went through and we…

Tim: So there was a confidence thing there.

Scott: Correct.

Tim: I mean, you had to get some runs on the board in order to demonstrate that, hey, you know.

Luke: So how did you go about appeasing the brand manager that you were going to make good quality products out of their billboard?

Scott: We initially…

Tim: Sent a bale of hay round wrapped in a Kylie billboard.

Scott: We initially went to…went through advertising agencies, got no joy there at all, we were too far away from the clients and they didn’t see a lot of value in it, so the story trickled down before…we couldn’t get to present in front of the client. So we then were trying to get marketing and brand managers. Still had limited…limited ways of going about it, we just couldn’t get enough, you know, enough people in…get in front of enough people. And so ultimately we ended up going to sign in stores and kind of getting billboards through the backdoor. So we were getting these billboards that they wanted to throw out because they didn’t want to store them anymore, the campaigns had ended. We were making them up and were just avoiding using any kind of brand or logo on the front of any products. Gradually over a period of time more and more brands became aware of us and either gave us the okay or turned a blind eye to it or, you know, wanted us to make products for them out of their billboards as promo products so.

Luke: It’s a great story for them really, isn’t it, I would have thought.

Scott: It is now but…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Do they use it?

Scott: Yeah. Look, we’re about to actually split the business into two. So Haul will remain as our street wear brand, we make the kind of accessory stuff. And then another business we’ve just launched called Riveting. Which effectively, I’ve got to think of a better term for this, but they do…we’re going to do eco corporate gifts. So…

Tim: Eco corporate gifts, okay.

Scott: So if you’re like…if you’re a big company, you’re Jetstar, one of our biggest customers, you’ve got a couple hundred billboards a year in Australasia, we chop them up and turn them into document satchels or pencil cases you can donate to schools.

Tim: Yeah, right.

Scott: They’ve all got the bright orange…Jetstar is an airline in Australia.

Tim: Yep.

Scott: They’ve all got this…all their billboards have got a bright orange logo on them, so everyone of them is embedded with the brand, which is one of the terms that we use.

Tim: Love your…you’ve got a good naming strategy. Haul is clearly a good succinct name and says what it does, which is carry, transport things around, is that kind of where it came from?

Scott: Exactly.

Tim: And then you’ve got Riveting. So there’s kind of a like nice succinct kind of coolness about the way you’re naming things.

Scott: A bit of fun and games trying to get hold of those names and I’ve heard you boys podcast about names and, you know, getting URLs and all that stuff. So Haul, we…I mean, when initially I started this business it was called Urban Boomerang which kind of one of those logical names, you know, Urban was a bit streety and Boomerang…

Luke: Yep.

Scott: …kind of all Australian.

Tim: Yep.

Scott: And Boomerang meaning coming back but it didn’t work at all with the street wear brand.

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

Scott: So we got rid of that.

Tim: Over logical.

Scott: Yeah. So Haul has been great. And there’s lots of wordplay, short haul, long haul, you can play…

Tim: Town haul.

Scott: You can play with it. Town haul, exactly.

Tim: Just as a story for our listeners, Scott was looking for some space in the CBD of Melbourne and created a little web page off your site which effectively said you were looking for the next town haul, H-A-U-L, very nice.

Scott: Yeah, so we…

Tim: Very nice.

Scott: We’re using a bit of social media to try and, you know…

Tim: Yep.

Scott: …instead of us walking the streets or talking to real estate agents…

Tim: Yeah.

Scott: …we got our, kind of our punters and our customer base to look for us.

Tim: Hey, Lukey?

Luke: Yes, Timbo.

Tim: We had to sneak out, because it’s hard to get a word in with Scott and he has got so much good stuff to say but every now and then we do need to interrupt.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: And the only way we can do this is walking out of the studio and being able to talk freely. Sorry, Scott, no, it’s gold, mate. But listen, Luke, what I wanted to say was, love naming. I love business names. I love it when I come across a good business name.

Luke: Yes. And you’ve even developed a few exercises in naming business…

Tim: I have.

Luke: …haven’t you, Timbo?

Tim: I have. I had a sticky names workshop which I run for clients. But what…and I love Scott’s naming strategy, as we were just saying, you know, like Haul and Riveting, they’re such great names. And obviously that Boomerang thing he was talking about wasn’t and he realised it…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …and made the change, which is a courageous thing to do. But I just want to share with our listeners a little technique which I learnt from a lovely lady on Twitter, her name is Yvonne and her Twitter ID is Ideas Culture.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: And what she showed me was the ability to…what you do is you create…so like right now I’ve got to name an organisation, a not for profit organisation, so what I’ve done is create a Google document, and this is a really simple thing to do and it’s free, created a Google document where I’ve put the brief on the document.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And the question, can you please help me come up with a name for this. It’s a mental health organisation.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And there’s the little brief to give people an idea of what we’re looking for and then I get a link from Google. It’s an easy thing to do, it just says, you know, request link and it gives you a link, and I just email that link out to colleagues and friends and I’ve been putting it on my Twitter feed asking people to contribute their thinking. And I know that it’s been up there now for about five days and I think that there’s about 150 name suggestions.

Luke: Wow.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: So, which is a great…whether there’s a good name there or not, at least it’s going to give me some good stimulus for then going on and creating.

Luke: Essentially it’s social media crowd sourcing, Timbo.

Tim: It is crowd sourcing, my friend…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …at its best.

Luke: And I’ve seen this, it’s actually a Google…it’s a spreadsheet doc.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: And I reckon it works really well.

Tim: Google Docs is just a great collaboration tool.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Maybe that’s another episode in itself.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: But naming is everything, listeners, I just think, and there are so many points of view, I don’t know which one is right. If you’re a small business, one school of thought says have a name that clearly explains what it is you do, therefore you don’t have to spend as much money telling people what it is you do.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: The other one is have a name that just is funky, you know?

Luke: Yeah, I tend to prefer the latter. Have something that’s unique and develops a personality of its own.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I do too. I think if you’re going to have a whacko name then you have to have a tagline…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …that qualifies what it is you do.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: But many schools of thought, not sure which one’s right or wrong, probably the one that you’re, you the business owner, are most comfortable with. Hey, we’ll sneak back into the studio. Because I know Scott is still talking, he doesn’t realise we’ve actually gone out, so back to Scott.

Luke: Back to Scott.

Tim: Tell me, how did you get Haul? Was it hard getting haul.com.au?

Scott: Yeah, it really was. So my criteria for when we changed the name was, one, no one had…it had to be trademark free in any of the areas we were in or wanting to go in. I wanted a short name and I wanted to be able to buy a top level domain name. Haul.com was actually owned by a really early level Internet marketer in the states called Scott, funnily enough. He wasn’t going to sell it and then haul.com.au was registered. So we looked at all these other names and we were probably going to go with haulbags.com. But didn’t really want it because it limits you, because we make a lot of things that aren’t bags, we make wallets and belts. So that was a bit of an issue and then, this is back before the domain name resellers got their act together and you could track names or you could have someone buy them for the broker, someone didn’t renew it and just…

Tim: Oh.

Scott: …it was there. This is 2002.

Tim: It fell out of the sky.

Scott: And then we started using it in 2004.

Tim: What about Riveting?

Scott: Same way. Bizarrely enough, Riveting I got only a year and a half ago. It just hadn’t been…hadn’t been registered. As well as the misspellings.

Tim: Dot au has a bit of a history of that. I mean, dot com is where the action is, you know.

Scott: Of course, yeah.

Tim: Dot au, I mean, really in the scheme of world domain names, Luke, and you’re the expert here, but dot au is a kind of drop in the domain ocean.

Luke: It certainly is. But it’s always…com au is better if you’re marketing and selling locally so if you…

Tim: Is it, why?

Luke: Because it has like a relevance. And if you’re selling a product usually, unless you’re exporting, you’re just selling it locally and particularly in the search engines eyes com au has more relevance for local search.

Tim: Yeah, okay.

Scott: I’d agree with that. We’ve found that as well. I mean, we…even if…I mean, down the track I’m looking to buy haul.com, hopefully they won’t be listening at the moment, jack the price up on me. But we’re kind of in that negotiation space right now.

Tim: That would have to be…I’ve kind of had a…spent a lot of time, as Luke knows, about a year ago, like bought a lot of domains.

Scott: Yeah.

Tim: Luke and I go back and forward on the emails all day…all times of the day and night, looking at domain names. Mate, Haul is…not only dot com, it’s four letters.

Scott: It’s a real word.

Tim: It’s actually a dictionary word.

Scott: Yeah.

Tim: I would be guessing and, you know…

Scott: What are you thinking?

Tim: I’d be almost be talking, it’d have to be six figures.

Scott: It’s gone from being in the US150.

Tim: Yep.

Scott: And because of the world we’re living in currently, it’s probably somewhere between 40 and 60 depending on what will happen.

Luke: Yeah, yep.

Scott: It’s got some real value. And down the track, I’ll get it one way or another, somewhere somehow.

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

Scott: But it’s just a matter of time before we got hold of it.

Tim: Yeah.

Scott: But ultimately we’ll still…

Tim: He says. He threatens.

Scott: …keep in market with haul.com.au because it has that localness. And some of the brands that I track and watch that are in and around our space, or that I admire, definitely use their local URLs locally, yeah.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: Timbo, we’re just going to sneak out for a tick, we want to have a quit chat about registering domain names.

Tim: He’s still talking, look, have a look.

Luke: Now, when you’re registering a domain name for your business, Timbo, and you find that it’s registered, what do you suggest that people do?

Tim: Don’t give up.

Luke: Don’t give up?

Tim: Don’t give up, no, no, no, absolutely not. So there’s a couple of things. One is clearly if the dot com or the dot au are not available…

Luke: Or your particular country.

Tim: Yeah, or your particular country, whatever it is, find out who owns it and you can do that through, is it Whois?

Luke: Yes, you can, yeah, through Whois.

Tim: Yeah, I know like Go Daddy, for example, which is a domain registrar, if it is taken, there’s a little button that says find out who owns it.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And it takes you to Whois. So it’s public domain information. So don’t give up if it’s taken. Go and find is there a real website at that domain name and often you’ll find there might not be or it might be parked, which means people have just parked it and are earning some advertising revenue from it. But approach them.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And, you know, yeah, they might…well they will, I mean, my experience is they want a silly amount of money but enter…depending on what the domain is, but enter a negotiation.

Luke: Yep. A little story I’ll quickly share is that I worked, previously worked, for an antivirus business and they were a reseller and distributor in Australia for AVG Anti-Virus and the owner of the business actually spent quite a lot of money purchasing avg.com.au from the previous owner and long term it’s probably one of the greatest assets he’s got…

Tim: Yeah, well that’s the other point too. Like you are buying something that is going to appreciate, particularly if it’s, you know, if it’s a dictionary name or a short name.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: It is something…it is not going to depreciate, you know.

Luke: And also if you’re spending a lot of time, a lot of effort and a lot of money developing your brand and people remember you for your brand name, you want to have that domain name registered.

Tim: Yep, yeah. And last point on domains is that don’t get big long complicated ones. You know, look, and if you do can I just suggest that in your marketing materials where the domain is visually presented, capitalise the first letter of each word.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Otherwise it just looks like a long string of words and it becomes unreadable.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: Back to Scotty, Luke.

Luke: Scott, you’ve got a fantastic story behind the business but how do you actually go about marketing your products?

Scott: We’re, I guess we’re…we don’t advertise at all. So we do some sponsorships. We do things like we sponsor local community events that are, like graphic design awards and things like that, because our crowd tend to be that kind of young creative urban inner city metro cliché cliché cliché. I mean, the blog or the book “Stuff White People Like”.

Luke: Mmm.

Scott: You heard of that one?

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Yep.

Scott: That’s our crowd. People ask me who do we sell to, that’s our crew. So they don’t really respond to advertising too well. So we do a lot of stuff with social media as well, the Twitters and Facebooks and that kind of stuff.

Luke: Yep. I’m very impressed with your website too.

Tim: It is good, isn’t it.

Scott: Thank you.

Tim: It is good.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: We’ll come to that in a minute because Scott has just declared earlier that he’s going to be here for a few hours anyway.

Scott: Indeed.

Tim: But Twitter is clever. Are we going to reveal a secret by saying that Haul on Twitter is the business.

Scott: Yep.

Tim: There is, and correct me if I’m wrong, Scott Kilmartin.

Scott: Is me ranting.

Tim: The man.

Scott: Yeah.

Tim: Ranting and raving. And if you’ve got something that’s going to get people’s backs up, it is?

Scott: Oh.

Tim: Your dog.

Scott: The dog. So I’ve got a dog called Gus who I’ve had for a long time who sits in our shop window in North Fitzroy and he’s kind of inadvertently become the face or the ambassador of the brand. It’s funny when you’ve got a…when you’ve got an identity on, or a personality online called Gus the Boxer you can say a lot of things to people that you probably wouldn’t be able to say if you were human. So we have a lot of fun. I mean, Gus is partly me but even now some of my staff really kind of use it. And it’s one of those really interesting things, because of the crowd that we sell to, I was very wary of really joining Gus to the brand too much. A lot of people see pets as being a bit kitsch and can be a fit folksy, which is not the space we’re in, but we just kind of…over time it really evolved of its own volition and now people really associate the dog. And especially when…if people have seen us online and they’re in Queensland and they’re in Melbourne and they come out to the store and the dog really is in the window so it gives a bit of authenticity as well. So all our customer service, we do a bit of a play with it. If you email the business and go, hey, I’m after a 17 inch MacBook sleeve, is that red one still on the website, the email you get back will be signed off as Gus. So it kind of tells us who’s paying attention. People then respond to you and go, hang on, I know that’s the dog. Or other people just, you know, go, hi, thanks, Gus. So it’s a bit of…

Tim: I remember meeting…

Scott: …a bit of a joke.

Tim: When I first met you you sent me a Tweet saying nice to meet you, Scott Kilmartin, or it might have been from Haul. And then it quickly followed, Gus came in and said, look, I’m sorry, I couldn’t get a chance but I was in the car.

Scott: That’s right, yeah. You can do a lot of stuff with it, it really is fun and it kind of…you see who’s paying attention as well.

Tim: I was just seeing if Luke was paying attention.

Luke: I was actually thinking of the next question.

Tim: Not a visual medium radio, but I just punched Luke in the arm…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …because he wasn’t laughing at my joke. Hey, Luke…

Luke: Wouldn’t be the first time.

Tim: What did you like about Scott’s website?

Luke: It’s clean. It’s simple. It’s also search engine optimised. I notice there’s been a bit of work done in that area too.

Tim: How do you pick that up as a layman, how do you look at that and go that is search engine optimised if ever I’ve seen a website?

Luke: Well one thing was that each of the page titles relate…are different and they relate to the area that you’re in. So messenger bags, messenger bags, you know, laptop sleeves. So that was one of the things I picked up on and I thought it was pretty cool. Going back to your brand, and perhaps some other similar Australian brands, I’m just wondering if you’ve taken any inspiration or perhaps they’ve taken inspiration from you. Crumpler would be possibly a competitor.

Scott: Don’t swear around me. Crumpler is the one that we often…because we…for a long time we were making messenger bags predominantly so we were seen as a bag company, being a street company, and they precede us by a couple of years and they pretty much own that inner city kind of messenger come street wear space and…

Luke: Yep.

Scott: …now that we’re doing less and less in the bags, we’re not…we’re still doing a lot of bags but we’re doing lots more things like belts and wallets, we…I guess make…building our own identity. But for a long time I was very sensitive to hearing the C word. But not so much anymore. So Crumpler is a brand that we, I mean, I think those guys are a huge success, I mean, they’ve done exceptionally well.

Luke: Yep.

Scott: I mean, the other brands in Australia that I look at, not necessarily because they’re a competitor of us, but because of how they’ve done it, one would be aussieBum.

Luke: Yep.

Scott: They’re kind of metro come…

Luke: Yep.

Scott: …almost gay, I guess, swimwear brand.

Luke: Brutopia is another one that comes to my mind.

Scott: Brutopia is good. I mean, even Little Creatures.

Luke: Yep.

Scott: Kind of in the beer space. Someone that’s a little bit, they’re not a mainstream and they’re not trying to be mainstream, although Little Creatures is getting, you know, more taps and doing more things. But in terms of the way they’re authentic, they’ve got a similar crowd to us. We would probably compete for spend sometimes with those guys.

Luke: Yep.

Scott: But in Australia they’re probably the brands that I look at. As well as even brands that are not at all competitors to us like…like Mimco and those things because of the way they’ve built their business and done well with them.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: You’re really competing at an emotional level, aren’t you, because the way you’re talking is like, you know, Crumpler, yeah, bag company, baggage company, whatever, you’re a street brand, you know, it’s like…

Scott: Yep.

Tim: …well so all of a sudden that opens up, that makes, you know, Haul could be anything in the future, yeah, it might be a phone company.

Scott: Yeah, long haul the phone company. I don’t think we’re going to be gumboots to Nokia type stuff.

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

Scott: But, I mean, I look…we…the brands I look at are…would be like a Sass & Bide, the denim brand that goes out of Sydney, Ksubi, I guess in the early days. So I reckon, I mean, we compete…people ask you who your competitors are and I say our competitor is Apple, our competitor is anyone selling $12 graphic design magazines. It’s just…it’s partly entertainment and partly product. And our stuff is a product with a story. So, I mean, it’s a pretty expensive bit of vinyl if it’s just a bit of vinyl. But if someone goes, hey, like your MacBook sleeve and then they go, oh, it’s actually made of a…it’s a recycled billboard…

Tim: Story.

Scott: …then you’re into that kind of, that…it’s a whole different game.

Tim: Story, story.

Scott: I got a good story off…

Luke: I’ve noticed that on your website too you’ve just brought out the Mac sleeves, is that correct?

Scott: Yeah, yep.

Luke: So, I guess in that way you’re appealing to people that are design centric quite often. And your…your products are unique so I think it’s just a great…a great avenue you’ve gone down in terms of appealing to your target audience, by the sounds of…

Tim: You sound like an Idol judge. Are you going to give him a, what do you call it, a touchdown?

Scott: Does that make you the nasty Idol judge?

Luke: Yeah, you’re the (28:42).

Tim: Hey, Luke, Luke was asking before how do you promote your business. So you don’t advertise and I’m not even going to ask why, because we know why. You sponsor, and clearly sponsor things where your people are hanging out, where the crowd is hanging out.

Scott: Yep.

Tim: What else do you do to get your name out there?

Scott: So, look, we do a lot of seeding. Seeding I guess would be, you know, giving people that are probably influentials or someone that’s seen as kind of one of the people that we would sell to like someone in a band, a DJ, so we seed those guys some product, so we give them stuff. And some of those times you get lucky, you know, we’ve given our…some stuff to products and it’s ended up in Rolling Stone photo shoots and things like that and that has real value. And we definitely get a lot more bang for our buck than we would be just advertising that way so.

Luke: Seeding. So how do you go about finding the right person to seed?

Scott: Yeah, stalk managers. Yeah, so look the best…the way…

Tim: Stalk managers, as in of public figures?

Scott: Yeah. So, look, if…it’s actually probably not even really true now. Because we try and find especially bands or DJs that are on the rise that haven’t quite made it yet. Once they’ve made it, they’ve got a manager, they’ve got a deal with a record company, they’re looking to get sponsorships and endorsements and those kind of things. But someone that’s a Triple J unearthed band that’s still struggling to pay the bills, you give them free stuff they’ll love you forever.

Tim: Yep.

Scott: So we get them on the verge, that kind of stuff. I mean, it sounds a bit stalk-ish, but I mean win for us, win for them.

Luke: Yep.

Scott: You know, they’re spending all their money travelling around in the Tarago trying, you know, trying to put together iTunes podcasts and bits and pieces to get their music out there, give them stuff, it really has worked quite well for us. Once the band has made it, it’s a different game. I mean, if they really really like your product they’ll buy it anyway.

Tim: Listeners, we’ve just snuck out of the studio. Luke?

Luke: Timbo.

Tim: Did you get a MacBook cover from Scott?

Luke: No. Did you?

Tim: No, no. It’s a bit awkward, isn’t it?

Luke: So he didn’t offer to seed you?

Tim: No, no, I thought…I thought, oh, maybe he’s seeded Luke. But you didn’t get seeded?

Luke: No.

Tim: I wasn’t seeded either. Awkward moment really.

Luke: Perhaps you should mention a previous…

Tim: Oh. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Luke: …project that you worked on.

Tim: Okay, okay, okay. So we won’t…like we’ll just go back in as if like, you know, nothing has happened and I’ll just talk to him, I’ll explain this previous project that I worked on where we did get seeded.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: So, and so just pretend nothing has happened, okay?

Luke: It might encourage him to be…

Tim: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, like let’s just be like, not be looking to be like grabbing at freebies or anything.

Luke: Yeah, that wouldn’t be us.

Tim: No, no, no. Just be kind of really cool about it. So we’ll go in and I’ll explain this project.

Luke: Okay.

Tim: I worked on a project, and I won’t go into the details of the project, but it is…it does involve that C word and it was many years ago and all of a sudden in our office arrived a whole lot of Crumpler bags out of nowhere. This project I was working on had a whole lot of…it was getting a whole lot of media attention and all of a sudden Crumpler left to right, like big bags, small bags, you name it, just arrived at the office. And the people involved in that project…

Luke: (31:41).

Tim: Yeah, one of them is in this room, you know, they…it was gold. And, you know, like that project mind you was also receiving support, financial support, from Apple, Telstra, PS2, all of which were getting coverage in return on their investment, but those Crumplers were being carried around everywhere. So you’re seeding idea is clearly, for our listeners, you know, a great one. You know, just involves rolling the sleeves up and kind of getting the word out there.

Male speaker: The other thing you might want to add, Timmy, is that not only do we all still have our original bags but all of our friends bought the same bags, which is Hamish and Andy.

Tim: Yeah, wow.

Male speaker: We’ve all got, like Josh and Jessie still have the same bag.

Tim: Yep.

Scott: The flow on effect is pretty amazing. I mean…

Tim: Yeah.

Scott: Crumpler have done some really smart marketing stuff.

Tim: Yep.

Scott: They’re…they’re ground level grass roots kind of under the radar marketing has been phenomenal for them. It’s really helped them grow in a pre viral world in a viral way.

Tim: Yep.

Scott: You know.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah, great stuff.

Scott: So they’ve done some smart stuff.

Tim: Lukey.

Luke: Timbo.

Tim: What have you got, any other questions for Scott Kilmartin from haul.com.au, soon to be dot com if he can just find that extra few thousand…

Scott: If the guy that owns it isn’t listening to this podcast.

Tim: Yeah, that’s right.

Luke: So looking into the future, any marketing campaigns you’re looking at doing that you can tell us about?

Scott: Yeah, sure. So right now the step for us is to actually open some more retail. So we’ve got a couple of retail spaces right now. I want to, one, open a bit more kind of what we’re going to call kiosk retail which is like little small hole in the wall spaces in…

Tim: Oh, brilliant.

Scott: …in the city in Melbourne. The plan is to open two in Melbourne and one in Sydney next year.

Luke: Yep.

Scott: The other bigger play is to…are you guys aware of Dare Jennings’ business these days Deus ex Machina, the motorcycle…

Tim: Never heard of it.

Scott: Go to deus.com.au. Dare was a guy that started a street wear brand in Australia called Mambo. Sold it, got bored. Into these…

Tim: Yep.

Scott: Into these 1940s motorcycles. He’s bought this space in Sydney where it’s a motorcycle showroom out front, it’s a workshop out back.

Tim: Oh, yeah.

Scott: It’s a cafe on one side.

Tim: Yeah, I have seen it.

Scott: And an art gallery upstairs. It’s at the end of Parramatta Road in Camperdown. What we want to do is a version of that where…and I kind of refer to it as our winery cellar door model. You can buy your bottle of wine out front and look out the back and see the grapes being crushed.

Luke: Wow.

Scott: So we’ve got…we’ve got, you know, I’ve got a lot of machines, cutting machines and whatever, that not only do the job but actually kind of look the part as well, they’re old.

Tim: There’s a coffee shop around the corner here, St Ali…

Scott: Yeah.

Tim: …which kind of offers…what you’re talking about is experiences, like people…

Scott: Correct.

Tim: It’s a day out.

Scott: The industrial tourism will be talking about that…

Tim: You are making a shop a destination. You know, it’s great. Interesting enough, like bricks and mortar, you think, oh, you know, the crowd that you talk about, oh, they’re living online, but here you are off going and leasing, buying, bricks and mortar. But clearly not just to sell product but to…

Scott: Yeah, a bit of both. One, it enhances the brand, gives you that…more of that authenticity. And also with our products, they’re a bit odd, so people have got to see them and touch them for the first time. Once someone…using the analogy of when one of your group had a bag, then the other guys were really happy to go and buy it. We often find, especially in online sales, if someone at a firm buys a bag, like a graphic design firm, or especially a MacBook sleeve, then we often get five orders from that firm the next like month from guys that work for them…sorry, the firm.

Tim: Yep.

Scott: So once someone has seen and touched it, so if we can provide an experience where they can touch it and do it in a pretty edgy way, one, it enhances our brand, and, two, people see how real it is. The other thing is Melbourne is traditionally the kind of textile manufacturing heart. There’s lots of spaces in and around the city that have a history as well. So if we can kind of put some of that back where the rest of the world has gone offshore, it gives us a point of difference as well.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Big time. Scott, I’m going to put you on the spot here, we run little competitions for our listeners, mainly in order for them to then leave…

Scott: I knew this was coming.

Tim: Did you? Oh, well, get the prizes out now. Luke, we’re going to run a competition that…for anyone who leaves a customer review on iTunes…

Luke: Yes.

Tim: …for Small Business Big Marketing, they are going to win, drum roll.

Scott: A Haul MacBook sleeve made out of recycled billboard.

Tim: Stop it.

Luke: Lovely.

Tim: Stop it. Luke, that is huge.

Luke: I’ll be submitting a review.

Tim: I’ll be entering.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: I’ve actually already reviewed our show on iTunes and so have you.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: So, and Scott, you can’t. Sam, can you do that before you go home?

Male speaker: Clearly the best show I’ve ever heard.

Tim: Clearly, that’s right. Hey, that’s great, mate. Okay, so we’ll do that.

Scott: No dramas.

Tim: And we’ll, from the moment this show goes up, we’ll give it two weeks, Luke.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Is that a good idea?

Luke: Yep, indeed.

Tim: Because that’s great, thank you, Scott. And, mate, thanks for coming in. Ripper product, interesting product, unique product really.

Scott: Thanks for the invite. I mean, that’s…part of our story is some people buy it because of the recycled aspect of our stuff. A lot of people buy it because of, you know, a lot of them, depending on what was originally printed on the billboards, no two are ever the same.

Tim: Mmm.

Scott: So it’s that one off uniqueness that very few other companies can claim, whether you’re the super high end, the Guccis of this world, or the other street wear brands that we compete against. You know, you buy one of these, no one else is going to have one.

Luke: That is something that I did want to ask. Once again back to your website, all the products on there are unique. Now, when you sell one of those, that automatically comes off?

Scott: It does, yeah. So we, I mean, our website has been complicated to get it right in terms of getting it setup but we at various points in time, I think we’re a bit low right now, we’ve probably got two and a half thousand products up there, but as we run into Christmas we’ll probably have 5000 where if you buy one of them, then that one instantly comes down and it’s gone forever. And we can’t…

Luke: So every time you produce a bag, let’s say.

Scott: Yep.

Luke: Photo is taken, goes up on the website, description, individual product number, warehoused and then someone orders it, it comes off the website?

Scott: Correct. So we’ve got in…where head office and the House of Haul is out in North Fitzroy, upstairs we’ve got a photo studio, so they literally come back, do the quality control, check all the sewing and all the stitching and then it gets shot front and back and pretty soon, if we can sort out the IP issues, you’ll actually see an image of, in the billboards’ case, the billboard it was from. It’s a bit tricky showing that at the moment.

Male speaker: Its parents.

Scott: But if you can it would be great, yeah.

Tim: Lovely.

Luke: Fantastic.

Tim: Scotty, brilliant, mate.

Luke: Thanks, Scott.

Tim: See you.

Scott: Thanks, boys.

Tim: Well, Lukey, that was a long interview.

Luke: It was a long one.

Tim: But a very worthwhile interview.

Luke: Yeah, I enjoyed it immensely actually. Scott was really good.

Tim: Mate, there is more marketing goodness in there than…I’m not sure what the end of that sentence is but, you know…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …than you can poke a stick at, I don’t know.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: But it’s bloody good.

Luke: And Scott’s really creative. I think he’s doing some really fantastic stuff. Very inspiring.

Tim: Creative, courageous and just right out there, you know.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Scotty, well done, mate. Now, Luke.

Luke: Timbo.

Tim: In closing, yes, I have got a very exciting little plan in progress.

Luke: That you’re hatching.

Tim: I am hatching. I am going to take ten, well not lucky, because they’re going to be just paying me to do it, but taking…looking for ten, and I haven’t got all the stuff yet ready, but I’m just, this is a bit of a teaser.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: I’ve created a workshop called “A healthy approach to marketing”.

Luke: Mmm.

Tim: It’s going to be in Bali.

Luke: Wow, nice.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah, nice, nice. And it’s going to be in April next year.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Maybe March. March/April next year. Five days of me sharing lots of lots of marketing goodness with a balance of, you know, a bit of yoga, a bit of cooking classes, a bit of this, a bit of that, a bit of life balance stuff.

Luke: Oh, fantastic.

Tim: Yeah. And it came out of the spirit of how do I get back at you for taking a fulltime job. But, you know, no, so, look, listeners, stay tuned for that. Probably by the time the next episode gets put up…

Luke: If they want more details…

Tim: Hey, mate, good idea.

Luke: …in the interim?

Tim: Yeah, look, if you are interested, it’s going to be reasonably priced, it’s going to be full of great stuff. You’re going to learn a lot about how to market and brand your business and there’s going to be a whole lot of fun kind of life balance stuff as well.

Luke: So it’s a five day intensive that’s not that intensive.

Tim: Oh, yeah, she’ll be intensive.

Luke: Balanced though.

Tim: Balanced, yep.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And you can email me, if you’d like to get on the waiting list you can email tim@theideasguy.com.au, tim@theideasguy.com.au, and just say, hey, Tim, love the idea of it, let me know when all of it’s up and send me some guff. I’m going to have a little web link off my homepage.

Luke: Good stuff. Now, in regards to the competition.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Scott so kindly giving away a MacBook sleeve.

Tim: Interesting how he’s going to give away to our precious listeners…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: But, yeah.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Oh, well, we’ll wait and see.

Luke: Anyway, yep.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, right.

Luke: Anyway, what you need to do is leave a review on iTunes and send us an email at questions@SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com and just leave us…tell us that you’ve left a review and also give us your address, your postal address, as well.

Tim: In case you win. And it doesn’t have to be a great review. Like, you know, hey, look, five stars and like glowing words, cool. But…

Luke: We love constructive criticism.

Tim: We do. We do.

Luke: So, yeah, leave one there.

Tim: And, finally, Spotlight which is our little product where we do a review of your business and create a tailor made show just like you’re listening to now, but all about your business, if you’d like to take that offer up, go to our website, go to the show notes and read all about it. It’s 497 Aussie dollars and you get your own dedicated exclusive version of Small Business Big Marketing sent directly to you, not posted anywhere, but straight to you and we hope that helps grow your business. Lukey, that is the longest show we’ve done.

Luke: It is.

Tim: So no more, enough, no more words. Have a ripper time. Good luck with your new job, mate.

Luke: Thanks, mate.

Tim: Okay.

Luke: We’ll catch you next time, guys.

Tim: Next time. Bye.

Whilst we both (one of us more than the other) show our juvenile (make that immature!) side during our time with The Bra Queen, we think you’ll find this interview bursting even more than usual with marketing goodness. For a small business owner, Renee is really thinking big AND implementing some big business marketing ideas…allowing her to punch far above her size. You’ll find out how she created some market research that achieved more than 1,000 responses, how she’s positioned her business to dominate a niche plus you’ll be reminded of the importance of social media to any small business’s marketing mix. And yes, this is the episode where Tim actually loses it, giggles uncontrollably…and basically acts like a 10 year old…all in the spirit of building a strong brand!

Duration: 25:50

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Podcast Transcription

Tim: Lukey, Lukey, Lukey, welcome back, mate. Episode 13, lucky 13, I reckon.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: How are you?

Luke: I’m very well. And yourself, Tim?

Tim: Mate, I am ripping today, I’m really excited. We just listened back to this show before we did our intro.

Luke: We both found it very entertaining.

Tim: Very entertaining, very entertaining.

Luke: And we certainly hope you do too.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, there’s a lot of gold with this guest. We won’t reveal who it is until we go straight into the interview because we’ll just keep it a bit secret, just for that little bit longer.

Luke: Yeah, and we’re not actually going to drop in bits and pieces like we usually do.

Tim: Nah, didn’t need to.

Luke: We’re just going to let it roll. We sort of felt it came together and everything was included so…

Tim: Actually it’s interesting, I thought that drop in thing, because everyone who listens…who feeds back on the podcast on our show says I love the way you drop in.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And I thought, you know, oh that’s kind of…that’s kind of part of our brand, that’s what we do. But it’s interesting we’re not going to do that today, because we…it’s not that we don’t feel the need to but the interview flows really well and we’re kind of happy with how that happens. However, I do get the giggles.

Luke: You do, Timbo.

Tim: And we tell you that now because (a) it’s part of our brand, we kind of decided that it’s just kind of well that’s who we are, you know.

Luke: Yeah. We’re not trying to be a snotty nosed marketing podcast.

Tim: Who’s that?

Luke: Us.

Tim: Oh, well who is the snotty nosed one?

Luke: I’m saying we’re not trying to be.

Tim: Well you’re saying there is one.

Luke: Well there may be.

Tim: Could be.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Okay. But anyway the point being…

Luke: Harvard Business Review, for example.

Tim: Ooh, you can’t say that. They’re always number one and we’re number two.

Luke: Correct.

Tim: On iTunes.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: If we beat the Harvard Business Review that is cause for a celebration.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: That would make us intelligent.

Luke: It…possibly.

Tim: Well it would have to.

Luke: Possibly.

Tim: You say, well, you know, we beat…yeah.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Anyway we’ll worry about that when we come to it.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: But the point being, yes, I get the giggles and you’re about to find out why I get the giggles. And we could have edited that out but we felt that’s part of our brand. And it’s…we just kind of, you know, we’re not going to be someone we’re not.

Luke: Yes, that’s right. And here we are.

Tim: Yeah. Yeah, so there you go.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: So, guys, we’re going to have a…we’ve got a great interview, we’re going to launch into it shortly. As we mentioned in our episode, our last episode.

Luke: Episode 12, yep.

Tim: Episode 12. Spotlight, we’ve got a spotlight product which we launched and has been received warmly, I would say, Luke…

Luke: Yeah, it has, yeah.

Tim: Very warmly.

Luke: Early days.

Tim: Early days. And we’ve done a couple of Spotlights.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: So you know what spotlight is, listeners, it is us doing a show dedicated to your business.

Luke: Yes, tailor made.

Tim: Tailor made. And what they have to do, Luke, is if they…if our listeners would like a bit of our Spotlight product.

Luke: Yes, five bits of marketing.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: And five questions.

Tim: That’s it. So email us five bits of marketing, probably your website is one of them and four other bits plus five questions you have around your marketing and your communications and we will produce…

Luke: A 20 minute show dedicated to you.

Tim: Cool. I like that.

Luke: It is.

Tim: You don’t have to show anyone. We’re not going to put it on iTunes. You’re the only one who’s going to get it and you can share it with the world if you so choose. So go to our website, SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com and you can find the link to purchasing Spotlight…

Luke: Yes.

Tim: …for the low low price, Luke, of not $4000.

Luke: Not.

Tim: Not three.

Luke: No.

Tim: Two?

Luke: No, not even two.

Tim: Oh, how much is it?

Luke: Four ninety-seven Aussie.

Tim: Too too cheap.

Luke: Get in quick because the Aussie dollar is going up.

Tim: It is, isn’t it?

Luke: It is.

Tim: So 497 Aussie dollars and you get your own show. Check out our website for that, listeners. I reckon it’s time to get into our first guest.

Luke: Let’s get stuck into it.

Tim: Australia’s number one bra critic and lingerie business coach, personal lingerie consultant and author, you ready for this, of Love Your Life.

Renee: Mmm.

Tim: What do you reckon about that, where do you start?

Luke: Geez.

Tim: Start with the bras.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Definitely start with the bras. So like, Bra Queen, interesting name.

Renee: Yeah, it is.

Tim: Where’d that come from? Clearly it’s what you do but like did you toy with the name?

Renee: I did, I did. I was…I started social media under my business name and I felt like a bit of a fraud and I was playing it safe so I just thought I want a title, I need a title where I can just be me and have the freedom of speech to just, you know, say what I want when I want and so…

Tim: So do you mean like…when you say you felt like a fraud operating under Renee…

Renee: No, I was operating under my business name, so…and it was just…I was playing it safe because I was thinking about my business partner and my business in general. So I, you know, had to be careful with what I had to say. So I enjoyed the whole process but, yeah, so I just felt like I could, you know, offer more.

Luke: It’s an interesting point actually about when you’re using social media, I think if you’re in an organisation where you’re trying to be pumping out social content for a business.

Renee: Yes, yeah.

Luke: I think you can become quite restricted.

Renee: Yeah, definitely, definitely.

Luke: Whereas if…

Renee: Exactly.

Luke: Whereas if you setup your own personal profile…

Renee: Yep.

Luke: But say I work for so and so.

Renee: Yes.

Luke: Or I am the whatever at so and so.

Renee: Yep, yep.

Luke: I think you have a bit more freedom.

Renee: Exactly. I liken it to, you know, when you call up a business and, you know, do you like speaking to an answering machine, of course not, you know, you’d much prefer to speak to a person and I, you know, refer to social media as the exact same thing.

Tim: So you’re Australia’s number one bra critic, which I love. Because I can’t imagine there being too many bra critics anyway.

Renee: No, there’s not, there’s not.

Tim: So just positioning yourself as number one I think is great.

Renee: Well, you know, hey, that’s right.

Tim: As long as no one asks. Anyway, who is number two?

Renee: Well don’t know.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, not going to mention them either.

Renee: No.

Luke: Well apparently no one remembers number two.

Renee: No, well…

Luke: I’ve been reading the 22 immutable laws of marketing, Tim.

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

Renee: There you go.

Luke: And no one remembers number two.

Tim: About time.

Renee: No.

Tim: Hey, so tell us what, what does a bra queen do? Because, you know, a couple of blokes here, you know, we’ll get the giggles and, you know, Luke said, you know, can we crack some really funny jokes. And I said, no, no, no, no. I’ll ask you for some tips later but…

Renee: Well there you go.

Tim: Just tips.

Renee: I’m waiting for a man boobs joke or something.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, that’s right.

Renee: Yeah.

Luke: Well.

Tim: Well there’s four here.

Renee: Brace yourself.

Luke: You’ve seen Tim’s, haven’t you?

Tim: I might get offended before the show’s over.

Renee: Okay.

Luke: Fortunately he’s not wearing his slimming costume today.

Tim: Luke, I’ll do the jokes.

Luke: Sorry.

Tim: What’s a bra queen do?

Renee: I review products. So I get a lot of companies that send me bras or I can go out and I can, you know, get my models together and we can go and try on bras and…there’s so many…

Tim: Luke.

Renee: Are you getting visuals?

Tim: Oh, look, honestly, Sammy our producer is laughing, Luke is trying to hold a straight face. Just let’s rewind there…

Renee: That’s right.

Tim: So you get your models together.

Renee: There’s no pillow fights, okay.

Tim: Okay.

Luke: (7:22).

Tim: Now, this is a serious marketing show, Luke, and I want you to remain that way, okay.

Luke: Is there air con on, Sam?

Tim: Getting a bit nipply? Sorry, I could not help that. We may have to cut that. But…so you get your models together…

Renee: Yes.

Luke: Stop it, come on.

Renee: I see girls’ breasts all day long.

Tim: Stop it. Just, no, I’m actually trying to be serious.

Luke: Do you think iTunes is going to let this one go through?

Tim: Okay. You get your models together and you what; you try on bras all day?

Renee: Yes. Yes, we do. Because every woman has a different shape.

Tim: Yep.

Renee: They sit differently, they’re different sizes so…and there’s so many bras out there.

Tim: Yep.

Renee: And so there’s just literally billions of dollars sitting on the shelves.

Tim: Right.

Renee: And to be honest, 99% of them I wouldn’t recommend. So which is why I started to review them and to put it online and to get it out there because it’s just…I think it’s crazy.

Tim: So is that…I’m sorry, Luke, I’ve regained consciousness.

Luke: Oh, good.

Tim: And I’ll just finish my question.

Luke: Just thought I might need to cover for you again.

Tim: Is that a paid part of your business to critique bras or is that…

Renee: No.

Tim: No.

Renee: No.

Tim: Okay.

Renee: No.

Tim: So you need to do that…

Renee: Yes.

Tim: …in order to offer a service, which is?

Renee: Which is consulting. So then I get a lot of emails and a lot of people that maybe live in the country that want to order online or they want to know what to buy with…you know, and play it safe and, you know, to buy that, you know, to buy that product and without fear of it, you know, being ill fitted. And then also from there, or if they’re in Melbourne I can then take them…go out shopping with them so…

Tim: Let’s go bra shopping.

Renee: Yeah, yeah.

Luke: So, Renee, how did you find that there was a need for this service?

Tim: I could have told her that. Sorry.

Renee: Because…it’s a well known fact that eight out of ten women wear the wrong size bra. So it stems from that but everyone bangs on about the fit and the fit of a bra, but it’s not the fit, it’s all about the shape so…which is, you know, it’s just the hugest misconception ever.

Luke: So you consult essentially to, what, to lingerie stores?

Renee: Yep.

Luke: So how do they go about finding you and your services, how do they come to the decision that they need a lingerie/business consultant?

Renee: Well especially now like because a lot of the department stores and a lot of the small businesses are stocking the exact same stock. So…and, you know, for small businesses we can’t compete with that. So they need to find their niche, they need to be able to find collections and offer the public something new and what women do actually want so…and I also conducted the 2009 bra survey and literally 100% of the women who took the survey, and it was in the thousands of people that actually took the survey, not one woman were actually happy with the lingerie collections that they offered so.

Tim: That is brilliant. Tell me about conducting the survey because that is just…okay, so you’ve called yourself the number one consultant in Australia, love that.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: You’ve now gone out and conducted an objective survey?

Renee: Yeah, yep, yep.

Tim: Clearly run by your business.

Renee: Yes, yep, yep.

Tim: Okay. Using…how did you do it, how did you physically do the survey?

Renee: I did it through an online called Survey Monkey.

Tim: Yes, good old Survey Monkey.

Renee: Yeah, I know.

Tim: Show note that one, Lukey.

Luke: Yep, indeed.

Tim: And so you created, just for our…

Renee: God love them.

Tim: God love Survey Monkey. So for our listeners who don’t know Survey Monkey, go online, 25 bucks a month I think it is, US, create…in fact you can do it for free.

Renee: You can do it for free.

Tim: But you don’t get as much…

Luke: You did it for free, did you?

Renee: Yep.

Tim: …functionality.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: Create an online survey.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: Branded and get a link at the end.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: And send it to all and sundry…

Renee: Yep.

Tim: …to then answer.

Renee: Exactly.

Tim: Where did you get your list from?

Renee: So I had…

Tim: Because to get 1000 like responses or whatever you…

Renee: It was all through social media.

Luke: Wow.

Renee: All through social media.

Tim: Oh, this is clever.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: Can we have a round of applause for a moment, Sam? Is there a…our producer is lining up a round of applause. We may come back to that. The audience is a bit slow.

Renee: It may be a bit belated.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But…

Renee: I’ll talk slowly.

Luke: So what sort of questions did you ask in your survey?

Renee: I asked if they were happy with the service, if they were happy with the service in department stores. Because a lot of it, I wanted to…to get a feel for how…who was shopping…

Tim: I’ll just interrupt.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: Have you got a…

(Applause.)

Yeah, great questionnaire, Renee, great survey, wonderful research. Okay, audience, thank you. Sorry, Luke.

Luke: So, Renee…

Tim: What…

Luke: The questions.

Renee: Yep. So I wanted to know, one, where were they actually purchasing their lingerie from, were they happy with the collections that were available, if they had a choice, what would they actually like to see in the stores, would they like to be professionally fitted every single time and what kind of bras were they after, you know, generally are they after pretty bras, after they after sexy bras, are they after t-shirt bras, are they after sports bras, so what were they actually looking for.

Luke: Wow, that’s pretty cool. And so the results across the board were that in general they weren’t satisfied?

Renee: Yep, yep, yes.

Luke: So what have you been able to do with that information now?

Renee: Well with that…

Tim: Luke, do you like t-shirt or pretty bras?

Luke: Sports bras actually.

Tim: Rubbish. That is not true. I know that’s not true.

Luke: Oh, I thought you were talking about for me.

Tim: No, no, clearly not. Sorry, enough silliness. I just think that’s brilliant. And you got thousands of responses.

Renee: I did, I did.

Tim: When you say you put that…

Renee: It got featured in The Age as well.

Tim: Yeah, there you go. So The Age is a…

Renee: That was after the fact.

Tim: …is a newspaper for Melbourne listeners. Yep.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: Okay. So after the fact.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: You put it out on Twitter, where else did you put it on?

Renee: Twitter, Facebook and then to my database as well.

Tim: Good on you, I just think that’s…

Renee: Yeah.

Luke: Fantastic.

Tim: …a very clever idea.

Renee: Yeah.

Tim: So then you got the results…

Renee: It’s amazing.

Tim: You know at the end of Survey Monkey how it then directs you somewhere if you so choose, where did you direct people after they completed the survey?

Renee: It was then back to my site.

Tim: Oh, you’re clever.

Renee: Yeah.

Tim: That’s great.

Renee: Yeah.

Tim: Okay.

(Applause.)

There it is, back to the site. And while we’re on the site, thanks audience, love that audience. Gee they’re…there’s one guy in particular…

Luke: Postproduction won’t have to work as hard.

Tim: No, no, they won’t, will they, they’re all just sort of like put it to air. So, Renee, braqueen.blogspot.com.

Renee: Yep, yes.

Tim: Is your…well, yeah, it is your site.

Renee: Yeah.

Tim: Why have you opted for a blog and not a website?

Renee: Well I am.

Tim: In particular.

Renee: I am.

Tim: You are?

Renee: Yeah, yep, yes, it’s getting made at the moment so.

Tim: So it was really just an initial kind of want to get something online.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: Blog…

Renee: That’s how I started to do it.

Tim: What is it blogger, you’re using blogger or…

Renee: Yeah, blogger, yeah, yep.

Tim: So free, great.

Renee: Yep. Yep, so it was free. Because I started to do it as…for my business and so and then from there and then…but I had no idea about blogging, I had absolutely no clue whatsoever so I was just feeling my way and then it just all evolved so…and then now, you know, like as I’ve sold my business and now my business is Bra Queen so I’m just, yeah, developing my website.

Tim: What was your business previously?

Renee: Alluring Lingerie.

Tim: So it was a lingerie business?

Renee: A lingerie store.

Tim: A lingerie store…

Renee: Yep.

Tim: Retail, bricks and mortar?

Renee: Online store.

Tim: Online, okay.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: Okay. Tell me, how often do you blog?

Renee: Every day.

Tim: Do you really?

Renee: Yeah.

Luke: Wow. Really?

Renee: I’m dedicated.

Tim: Where do you get your inspiration?

Renee: I have a lot to say.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Luke wants to do a guest blogging spot as well. Luke’s got a lot to say, he just won’t say it. Tell me, where do you get your inspiration, every day…we actually just did our last show…

Renee: Yeah.

Tim: …was about with a blogger, with a blogger type guy.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: And we shared our top nine sort of blogging inspirations. But where do you get your inspiration from?

Renee: I just…I blog about anything that I feel passionate about. And I’m just lucky enough to be passionate about an abundance of things. So I like mainly I talk about my bras. At the moment I’m halfway through a Love Your Life challenge so…and that’s, you know, and that’s going to run for a month. So that’s, you know, my blogs every day for the next month. But usually, you know, everywhere I go I carry my pen and paper and I just jot down notes and I get an idea and then that idea just, you know, evolves into a story.

Tim: And do you blog…do you schedule blogs or you literally write and post or do you have a whole lot of blogs…

Renee: Both.

Tim: …ready to go out?

Renee: Both.

Tim: Yeah, okay.

Renee: Both, yeah, yeah, I do a bit of both. So I structure it generally for the week but as things happen, as news happen then, you know, like it needs to be…

Tim: Yep.

Renee: …you know, pretty quick so then I just alter it where need be or if I get like a blog or a post that’s had heaps of feedback then I then elaborate, do more research and then see how I can then expand on that post as well.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: So what, if you don’t mind me asking, Renee, what sort of traffic do you get to your blog?

Renee: Now I’m getting about 400 a day.

Luke: Wow, that’s great.

Renee: Yeah, yeah.

Luke: Fantastic.

Renee: Yeah, yep.

Tim: You’ve got…you’re going…you’re quite verbose, aren’t you?

Renee: Yeah.

Tim: Like your blogs are not short.

Renee: No. Oh, some are. It depends.

Tim: Yeah, okay.

Renee: So, yeah.

Tim: So no hard and fast rules for…

Renee: No.

Tim: …the Bra Queen’s…

Renee: No.

Tim: …approach to blogging?

Renee: No.

Tim: Why no advertising? Just looking at it now, you’re not running any ads. There’d be a revenue stream there I would have thought from…

Renee: Yeah, I, look, I…if…I’m open to that, however, I will only do it if I know and love the product and I don’t just want to advertise for anyone.

Tim: Yep, okay.

Renee: So, yeah.

Tim: So if there is a potential sponsor…

Renee: Yes.

Tim: …of the Bra Queen listening.

Renee: Yep.

Luke: Is there anyone off the top of your head that you would advertise on your site, whether it be designer, another online retail store?

Renee: Yeah, it would be, you know, like an online store if I like their products.

Luke: Yep.

Renee: If I know and like their products essentially so, yeah, yeah.

Tim: You know exactly what you stand for in your business, don’t you?

Renee: I do, I do.

Tim: You have a very very clear…it’s palpable. Palpable? Palpable? Tell me, Love Your Life, I’ve seen you Tweet about Love Your Life.

Renee: Yeah.

Tim: So you’ve gone, you’ve done your research.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: You’ve, you know, what’s…you’ve got a new promotion, tell us about that?

Renee: I’m…we’re in our second week now. I conducted another survey.

Tim: Yep.

Renee: And…

Tim: Why not, the first one…

Renee: I know.

Tim: The first one was good.

Renee: I know, the first one was a cracker so, hey, I thought I’d go back for more. Discovered that three out of five women were unhappy with their lives, or not unhappy, they just felt like they were floating with, floating through it or they’re just on autopilot and just, you know, going through the motions. And I just thought, that’s crazy and, you know, something has got to give and we just need to stop and have a laugh. I’m from the country, I’m a country girl. I like to chill out, relax and just, you know, enjoy, you know, my network, my friends and family around me and so many people just don’t get that opportunity to do that and especially in the city as well. Because, you know, everyone lives in their own world and in the country you’ve got one world and you’re just kind of intertwined, and I like that. But in the city it’s like, you know, when are you free to meet up for a coffee and let’s do it in two weeks at three o’clock, you know.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, serious stuff.

Luke: So true.

Tim: Yeah.

Renee: It’s, yeah, you know, you don’t just knock on someone’s door, like you would never do that in the city.

Luke: Yeah, yep.

Renee: So that’s how it started. I started posting and then I actually thought, no, hang on, I need to do this properly. So I actually got…I put a call out there to try and get prizes to try and get, because I wanted people to, one, subscribe to my site, but just share their stories and make their progress online as well. And so I got over $3000 worth of prizes to give away for the challenge. I’ve got guest posts talking about…some are talking about…they’re experts in their field, life coaches, image consultants, others are talking and sharing their stories. So, you know, they’ve gone through some pretty major stuff in their lives and they’re sharing actually, you know, how they overcome them.

Tim: So what a great…so it’s a challenge.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: It’s not a competition.

Renee: No.

Tim: No winners.

Renee: No.

Tim: It’s just like everyone…

Renee: Yep.

Tim: …join forces…

Renee: Yep.

Tim: …and let’s make for a better life.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: Yeah, brilliant.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: Well reflecting so well on your brand.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: You know, you’re very very clear on your brand. When I met you…we met at a Tweeter, didn’t we?

Renee: Yes, we did, yeah.

Tim: At a Tweet (19:58), Luke.

Renee: Yes, yes.

Tim: Luke, a little social soiree. And Lorrae was…Lorrae. Renee. Renee was looking a treat. And, you know what, what caught my ear when talking about your business was the fact that when…earlier before…you said like, oh yeah, you’re an image consultant or a bra critic, but you actually said something that caught my attention, first of all, which was you’re interested in people…in women feeling good…

Renee: Yeah, yep.

Tim: …about themselves.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: …when they wake up in the morning.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: And I think that’s a really interesting approach to take for your business. So is that a mindset that you take…

Renee: Yep.

Tim: …every day?

Renee: Yeah. Yeah, it is, it is. And for a long time. So I was actually…I just got asked to be a contributor author in a book and I actually just wrote my chapter and when I was writing it down…and actually, true story, a couple of months ago I was just going through my stuff and I came across an old goal that I’d written out, it was probably about nine years ago, and it was what I wanted in a job, because I’ve done an abundance of different jobs, and it was to help people, to motive people and encourage people and to give them knowledge. And then I was reading back and looking back and I’m like every single job, indirectly, without me even knowing it, has always done those things in different shapes or different forms so, yeah, so it is. I love that, like it’s satisfying, yeah.

Tim: Brilliant.

Luke: Fantastic.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: Lukey.

Luke: Tim.

Tim: Do you have any other questions for Renee?

Luke: I don’t think I do.

Tim: I do. So with your website…

Renee: Yeah.

Tim: …you’re going from a blog to a website.

Renee: Mmm.

Tim: What’s the big idea in the website? Because clearly I don’t imagine you’re the type of business owner that’s just going to, you know, put a contact us and about us and here’s our products type website up, are you?

Renee: No, no. That’s…and it’s been a long time kind of in the making so…because I wanted…I wanted to get it right, especially with my logo which has taken forever, but which is another story. But I wanted to find out what exactly I wanted to put on my site. So…because I do so much so…and how to do it, you know, because I talk about, like I have Love Your Life as well and I talk about so many other things so, you know, do I keep it under that Bra Queen umbrella, do I then branch off and do other things, so it’s…so it’s just been tailoring it to suit me so…because it’s not like I’ve got another, you know, model business that I can copy off because there’s no one else out there that actually does it so.

Tim: Yeah. Tell me, how did you, you said you had logo problems.

Renee: Mmm.

Tim: What was the problem? Because I mean this is an issue that many small business owners go through.

Renee: Because I think Bra Queen has been established and been established for, you know, nine, ten months now, I had it in my head, you know, what I actually wanted and I just was finding it difficult to get what I wanted.

Tim: Yeah, right. Found the designer okay?

Renee: I did, yes, but now I’ve gone with one of my old favs.

Tim: Good on you. Oh, well you’ve got to go through the journey to know that you might have been at the right place in the beginning.

Renee: Well, yeah, exactly, exactly. So at least, you know, I wanted…I said…as I said to, you know, my designer, I said, you know, I want to make sure that I’m happy and I’m confident with the direction that I go down.

Tim: Yep.

Renee: So, you know, instead of…I don’t want to pick the best out of a bad bunch, you know, so.

Tim: Good on you. Good on you.

Luke: Well it’s got to be a reflection of you personally, doesn’t it?

Renee: Exactly.

Luke: I mean, it’s not…

Renee: Exactly, yep.

Luke: This isn’t just a standard business logo.

Renee: No.

Luke: It’s something that has to reflect you personally.

Renee: Exactly, exactly.

Tim: How did you get…I’m going back a little bit here, not to the really funny part of the interview but, you know, to a good part of the interview. Tell me, how did you get that survey in The Age in the end because, you know, for our Melbourne…for our non Melbourne listeners, big daily newspaper.

Renee: Yes.

Tim: How did you get that? Because that’s free, that’s big…

Renee: It is.

Tim: …free publicity.

Renee: It is. And I think you might need to get the applause ready because…

Tim: Audience, wake up.

Renee: Through Twitter.

(Applause.)

Luke: Wow.

Tim: There is it, there it is. I told you Twitter would take off, Luke.

Luke: The power of Twitter.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, and in fact being…

Renee: I was a sceptic as well.

Luke: Yeah.

Renee: I was a sceptic as well.

Luke: Many have been. I’m sure there’s many people out there that still are.

Renee: Yes, exactly.

Tim: Well stop it.

Luke: Yes.

Renee: Yes.

Tim: All you sceptics.

Renee: Yep.

Tim: And in fact really the Bra Queen should be on, I have to say this…no, I’m not going to say it. Do you know what I’m thinking?

Luke: No.

Tim: Well what would…

Luke: I don’t know what’s going on in your dirty mind.

Tim: I know. I know. And we’re going to clearly cut this out, but what would the Bra Queen be on? It wouldn’t be on Twitter.

Luke: Titter.

Tim: It wasn’t as funny as I thought. Okay.

Renee: Or a bit predictable.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, that’s me. Luke’s the clever one. I just go with the flow. Renee, you have been an absolute joy, I reckon.

Renee: Thank you.

Tim: I’d love to get Renee back in.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: For another belly laugh in about a year’s time when I need another belly laugh, because I have one about every 12 months and, you know.

Renee: Well there you go.

Tim: Today was the day.

Luke: Perhaps Renee could go on The 7pm Project.

Tim: What’s that? That’s a local joke, Luke.

Luke: Yeah, I know.

Tim: Come on. Renee, absolute pleasure.

Renee: Thank you.

Tim: Good luck with new website.

Renee: Thank you.

Tim: Good luck with Love Your Life.

Renee: Thank you.

Tim: And just good luck, because what a great job.

Renee: Thank you.

Tim: And if you’re looking to employ, certainly Luke will be putting his hand up and I’ll be right behind him.

Renee: Awesome.

Luke: Thanks, Renee.

Tim: Thanks, Renee.

Renee: Thank you. Thank you very much.

If the idea of creating a blog for your business is anywhere on your marketing radar but the idea of actually keeping it current and interesting does your head in then stop reading this and start listening to episode 12. In it, we interview James Duthie, blogger extraordinaire and online marketing strategist. He tells us how to get blogging plus how to get found in the largest haystack of them all which we all know as the world wide web.

Duration: 27:24

Mentioned

Contact us about Spotlight.

SEO Book
Perry Marshall’s Google Adwords eBook
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Big Response
How to blog almost every day
SEOmoz
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Get Abstracts

Podcast Transcription

Tim: Lukey, Lukey, Lukey, look at you, you have got hat hair, haven’t you, true?

Luke: Yes, it was a sunny day yesterday, Timbo, and it’s, you know, still stayed in that position. I must have a shower.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, you’ve sort of got that Elvis sort of flickback thing happening. Very nice though. Sorry, it’s not a visual medium so we probably shouldn’t talk too much about what we can see and our listeners can’t. Hello, listeners, welcome to Small Business Big Marketing episode, about 12 or thereabouts.

Luke: Yeah, thereabouts.

Tim: Yep, exciting stuff. So Small Business Big Marketing a show, if you’re a small business owner or someone responsible for the promotion and getting more customers for a business or a charity then you are so in the right place.

Luke: Indeed you are. We’re here to motivate you about your marketing…

Tim: Yep.

Luke: …endeavours.

Tim: Endeavours, successes, you know, quit that jibber jabber.

Luke: Quit that jibber jabber, fool.

Tim: Yeah, well that’s an ad from Australia.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: So it probably doesn’t work for our overseas listeners. It’s a Mr T ad promoting a chocolate bar, but that’s by the by really, isn’t it. So, Luke, today, a couple of things before we introduce our guest.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Came across a ripper, and I mean ripper, website that everyone in business should subscribe to. It’s called…

Luke: Great for those people who are time poor, Tim.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah, big time. Time poor and don’t want to read pages and pages and pages of business books.

Luke: Sounds like me.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, and me. And probably most people. This website must be doing a roaring trade. What they do is…it’s called abstracts.com.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And we’ll put a link in the show notes to it, but this website summarises business books and they’ve summarised about 5000 business books so far, all the biggies. And they summarise it down to five pages. So just get the, you know, like the nub of the idea.

Luke: Mmm.

Tim: And I’ve always had this sort of theory that says that a lot of books that you read, particularly business books, they could have written it in a page.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: It’s like, you know, here’s the idea, next.

Luke: Just give me the punch line.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, that’s right.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: But it’s like…great example is that book Malcolm Gladwell’s…

Luke: Tipping Point.

Tim: Tipping Point, yeah, yeah.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: So Tipping Point was like this notion…no, I’ll tell you the one I was thinking of, that is a Malcolm Gladwell book, but I was actually thinking of Blink.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Which was another book that he wrote. And the concept behind Blink was that as soon as you saw something or were presented with something, you either knew that it was a yes or a no. Yes, I like it, no, I don’t, type stuff. Yeah?

Luke: Yep.

Tim: In the blink of an eye. And this book went for about 400 pages. And I think that that book could have been summarised in a paragraph. The rest of it was kind of…it was interesting.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: You don’t agree, do you?

Luke: I like…I like the case studies that he presented actually.

Tim: They were good case studies.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: But the actual concept…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …was quickly easy…easily…easy to understand.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: So, look, this is a great source. You get them in PDF form, you can download them to your iPhone, you can download to your Blackberry.

Luke: So audio books as well.

Tim: Audio books as well.

Luke: Fantastic.

Tim: It is, it’s really good. And so we’ll put a link to that in our show notes. But you will look really smart if you become a member of Abstracts. The other thing, drum roll, we are launching a new product, listeners, for you, dedicated to you, and it is called…

Luke: Small Business Big Marketing Spotlight.

Tim: Spotlight. And it’s all about, Luke?

Luke: Putting the spotlight on your business, Tim.

Tim: Yeah, it is. It’s very exciting. So what it is is you just need to send us five questions that you may have about the marketing of your business and up to five pieces of marketing material that you have for your business, that might be your website, stationery, ad, brochure, whatever it may be, send it through and we will put it into the Small Business Big Marketing machine, Luke. That happens to be you and I.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And out the other end will come a dedicated Small Business Big Marketing episode entirely, entirely, about your business.

Luke: Yes, that’s right. It will be a 20 minute podcast for your ears and your ears alone should you choose it to be.

Tim: For your ears…oh, no, that was that James Bond, don’t go there. So, yeah, like no one else hears this. We send you the audio file and you can play it to whoever you want to, but it is for you, it won’t be put on iTunes or anywhere else. And it’s a dedicated show. So, listeners, send us an email with that information to?

Luke: Spotlight@SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com.

Tim: And don’t forget, five pieces of marketing material that you currently have for your business, website would be good because that gives us a real insight into your business, and five questions about the marketing of your business that you’d like answered and you will have a show coming to you within seven days.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: So get onboard. And the cost, that would be an important factor, Luke, in someone deciding to use us.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: And it is $497 Australian.

Luke: Yep, Aussie.

Tim: Aussie, Aussie. Which makes it cheap, Americans, and people from the UK and Europe and anywhere else in the world.

Luke: Although the Aussie dollar is on the…

Tim: It is.

Luke: Anyway.

Tim: It’s going all right.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And that is via PayPal and all the details will be on our website. So go for it, we look forward to doing a dedicated Spotlight on your business. Now, Luke, our first guest.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Our only guest today.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Is?

Luke: James Duthie. James is an online marketing specialist.

Tim: He is, yeah, yeah. And after some initial silliness, we actually get serious about how to get your business found online. So there’s a fair bit of gold there. So pen and paper at the ready, listeners, and here’s James.

Luke: All right, today we’re talking to James Duthie. And, James, is an online marketing strategist with Next Digital, I believe, James?

James: Yes, that’s right.

Luke: Can you give us a little bit of background on…

Tim: Can I just say hello to James first, I mean, you know…

James: G’day, Tim.

Tim: Hello, pleased to meet you, James.

James: You too.

Tim: But I also want to introduce a game, right.

Luke: Right.

Tim: Because I am sitting in a room, in a studio, with two Internet marketing geeks, you know, I wouldn’t put myself in that…in that kind of…I love all that stuff but I don’t know how to talk the talk. But you guys have got a language of your own, right.

Luke: So we’re not allowed to use acronyms, is that what you’re saying?

Tim: You’re not allowed to use acronyms and you’re not allowed use any big words that our listeners, who are small business owners trying to do great marketing, and who get all bamboozled by the Internet and its terminology. So you’re not allowed to use any of those words.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And when you do, Sammy, what are we going to hear?

(Boing.)

That’s…okay? Now, if we get up to ten…

Luke: Gotcha.

Tim: Ten.

(Boing.)

Then…I actually don’t know what I’m going to do, you know, maybe…

Luke: So maybe I owe you.

Tim: You have to donate to charity.

Luke: Donate to charity, okay.

Tim: You have to donate to charity.

James: That sounds good.

Tim: Yeah, okay.

Luke: Both of us or just me?

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

James: Ten each or ten combined?

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah, don’t say ten what but just ten each, okay.

James: Right.

Tim: On the table.

James: Too easy.

Tim: There it is.

James: Okay.

Luke: Okay.

Tim: So is that clear?

Luke: That’s clear, it’s all…I’m actually going to let James do most of the talking so I’m okay.

James: Off the hook.

Tim: So anyway enough from me.

Luke: Yeah, look, James, tell us what does an online marketing strategist actually do?

James: Okay, obviously I work at Next Digital which is one of the larger specialist digital agencies in Australia, I won’t give it too much of a plug, that’ll be it. Yeah, so as an online strategist basically I’m in charge of getting to know, we’ve got a whole range of clients, in the hundreds, larger businesses and medium businesses, and basically my job is to get to know their business, get to know their marketing and online objectives and then basically define which online channels are most suitable to achieve their business perspectives.

(Boing.)

Tim: What’s a channel?

James: Oh. Really?

Tim: What is a channel?

James: A channel, okay…

Tim: Hey, like Channel 9?

James: Yeah, no, no, no, not…geez, I’m going to be out of…

Tim: You are, you are.

James: I’m going to get my ten in about five seconds.

Tim: You have created an industry; you are responsible for an industry that has its own language.

James: Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, I’ll try my best. Okay, an online channel would be a…

(Boing.)

Come on. How can I answer the question without saying the word channel?

Tim: What’s a…

(Boing.)

James: Three, okay.

Tim: What is a channel?

James: A channel is…

(Boing.)

Luke: Please.

James: Okay. The way we define it…

Tim: Yep.

James: Is that okay, it?

Tim: Yep.

James: Yeah. Is okay email is a channel, search engines are a channel.

(Boing.)

(Boing.)

Luke: Come on, Sammy.

Tim: Okay. We’ll give him a bit of breathing space.

James: I think I’m up to ten already.

Luke: Does anyone not know what Google is?

Tim: Yep.

James: Okay.

Luke: It’s a search engine.

Tim: Okay, that’s a channel.

James: An online banner, for instance, would be a channel…or, sorry, display advertising would be a channel. Social media, is that okay?

(Boing.)

Tim: Absolutely not. What is social…

James: Absolutely not, okay.

Tim: No, we know what social…

James: I know you’ve talked about it on this program…

Tim: Yeah, we’ve talked about it a lot actually. Okay. We’re losing focus, Luke.

James: We certainly are so I’ll try to bring it back to focus.

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

James: So essentially…

Tim: Sorry, James, you take over if you could.

James: Yeah, it’s your fault. Essentially my role is to understand their business and their marketing objectives.

Tim: Oh, yeah, what do you do?

James: An online strategist, that’s what I’m trying to explain right now…

Tim: Yep.

James: …without much success.

Tim: Yep.

James: And then essentially understand the business and their objectives and define whether to use email, search engines, display advertising, social media, online promotions, et cetera, which channels, can I say it now, yes?

Tim: Oh, yeah.

James: Which channels are the best…

Luke: Come on, he’s explained it.

James: …and then, you know, how to use those channels to market effectively.

Tim: So if we could bring it back, say, to small business owners, medium business owners, who, you know, they all…if they haven’t got a website, they feel as though they should have a website, correct?

James: Yep.

Tim: You know, like there’s this constant kind of thing about having a website and is it a good website, is it a bad website, how much do I pay for the website. Having a website is one thing but once a business gets a website…

James: Yep.

Tim: …give us your top three or your top five things…

James: Yep.

Tim: …that they should do with the website?

James: The first one would be Google and the search engines. About 80% of Internet sessions start with a search engine, so basically if you’re not in a search engine and if you can’t be…

Tim: Oh, no, go on.

James: What word can I say here? If you’re not in a search engine you’re not going to be found.

Tim: We are going to stop James there for one minute, Lukey. And this is a massive topic and it probably isn’t going to be done justice in this short interruption.

Luke: No, certainly not.

Tim: But I guess the thing is that the answer to that thing about Google and how to be in top of Google, on top of Google, in top of Google.

Luke: In the top rankings for Google.

Tim: That is exactly right.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: You can pay for it.

Luke: You can if you want to be part of the sponsored listings, which is Google AdWords…

Tim: Yep.

Luke: …then you can certainly pay per click.

Tim: Yeah, you can. And that’s, you know, that is effective, it’s very effective. But it can get costly if you don’t know what you’re doing.

Luke: It’s a good short term strategy if you want to be appearing for certain keywords.

Tim: Yeah, that’s a good idea. Yeah, yeah, like (11:46) or.

Luke: Yeah, whereas organic listings, which are the ones in the main listings down the left hand side of Google.

Tim: Just on Pay Per Click and Google AdWords we might in our show notes put a link to Perry Marshall’s book.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Because if there is…there’s certainly not a silver bullet for search engine optimisation which we’re just about to talk about, but Perry Marshall’s book.

Luke: The Guru.

Tim: The Guru.

Luke: Certainly…

Tim: He is the guru.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: At Pay Per Click.

Tim: All right, so we’ll put a link to the show notes in that. And if you want to buy that and read it you will actually learn one hell of a lot about Pay Per Click advertising.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: So your next bit is?

Luke: How do you get in the organic listings?

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Which is more your long term strategy because you want to be appearing for keywords that relate to your business and essentially…

Tim: What’s organic?

Luke: Well it means you’re not paying for them, like it means that Google chooses your site because it is the best and most relevant website for whatever someone has…

Tim: Nice.

Luke: …plugged into the search area.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: So a couple of things you can do. Firstly, ask you web developer, ask them if your website is search engine friendly. So some of you might have a nice flashy, or be considering getting a nice flashy, animated website.

Tim: Don’t.

Luke: Don’t.

Tim: Great tip, but I think we’ve mentioned in a previous episode was that if eBay or Amazon aren’t doing it…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …don’t do it.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And I’m not sure that I’ve ever seen an eBay or Amazon webpage with any flash whatsoever.

Luke: Yep, no.

Tim: So, yeah, don’t.

Luke: If you ask any search…any search engine optimisation expert, they’ll say a couple of things. Good content, so make sure you’re trying to continually add good content to your website.

Tim: Be yourself.

Luke: Yeah, be yourself. And essentially create content that people want to read, people want to link to.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: Secondly, inbound links, it’s…organic rankings are a little bit like a popularity contest, the more inbound links the better is basic, but if they come from a better neighbourhood, so say a link comes from a big media organisation…

Tim: Ooh, yeah.

Luke: …then they’ll certainly be valued more so.

Tim: Well looked upon by Google.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: Well give me one more, give our listeners one more.

Luke: One more, make sure that your content is original.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: So don’t go copying content and…

Tim: No.

Luke: …and web publishing it to your site.

Tim: Because they can pick that up, can’t they, they can pick up the fact that you have cut and pasted something…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …from somewhere else. Pretty amazing.

Luke: One more, I’d write around your core keywords. So let’s say you’re a small business accountant, write an article and add it to your site about income tax, for example.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: And income tax time. And, yeah, essentially write…

Tim: It is a massive, a massive massive area this.

Luke: It’s huge.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: It’s huge and I’m not going to do it justice.

Tim: No, no.

Luke: If you want to read more about it go to SEObook.com.

Tim: SEObook.com?

Luke: SEObook.com.

Tim: Free?

Luke: Elements of it are.

Tim: Righto, well we’ll put a link in the show notes.

Luke: There’s enough there to keep you dangerous.

Tim: The other thing…keep you dangerous.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Such a dangerous topic isn’t it.

Luke: Mmm.

Tim: The other thing too is that you can always pay someone to do your search engine optimising.

Luke: Yes, you can.

Tim: So, you know, like you might find someone on elance, for example, who they’re not your web developer, they’re not your designer, they’re just your optimiser. And you might pay them sort of an ongoing fee to be ticking all the SEO boxes.

Luke: Yeah. And, look, if you’re in a competitive area too, that’s something you want to consider.

Tim: Righto, back to James, number two.

James: Number two, I would say not so much about being found but an essential online marketing tactic is email. Every customer that comes into your store, request their email address…

Tim: Yep.

James: …when they buy something, start to build a database. A customer database is just about the best ad marketing asset you’ll ever have.

Tim: Yeah, okay. So where would you put those email addresses, whack them in Word or?

James: Into a spreadsheet.

Tim: Yeah, so a bit of Excel action.

James: Yeah, Excel is fine.

Tim: Yep.

James: Just start to build a database. It doesn’t have to be high tech. You know, you can run it…most small businesses won’t have the resources or facilities to run a professional…run it professionally through an email marketing software tool or system but you can still run email through Outlook.

Luke: All right, we’re just going to pause James there for a quick chat about email marketing.

Tim: Lukey, the word spam comes to mind here.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: But…and I don’t think James was suggesting that whatsoever. However, I think when we do think about email, we go, ooh, you know, are we going to be spamming people and are they going to get cross because we’re sending them email. We were just talking about how the fact that many small business owners like you and I have a large contact list.

Luke: Yes, we do indeed.

Tim: So why not every now and then do a group email to…it doesn’t have to be to all your clients, but create a group that you think, oh, those clients need this particular service of mine and flick them a quick email about…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …what you’ve done in that area lately.

Luke: Yeah. And there are some good online tools for managing email lists too, which allow people to unsubscribe. And I’d suggest go with one of those tools. I…well we actually use a product called Aweber for Small Business Big Marketing.

Tim: You love Aweber, don’t you?

Luke: Aweber is great. It’s really good. It allows us to do…now, if Sammy was here you’d give me a boing.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Auto responders. And that means you’re actually just setting up a chain of six or seven emails to…and they actually start going as soon as someone signs up to your list.

Tim: So a good example is if you sign up to Small Business Big Marketing, top right hand corner of our website, you will get a number of freebies and then over the course of the following days I think there’s about six emails that go out…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …that provide additional free content value…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …to our…the people who register. But it looks as though it’s coming out from us maybe sort of personally, oh, you know, like.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: But you obviously can’t do that.

Luke: No.

Tim: Because we have hundreds going out all the time.

Luke: Correct.

Tim: And we just automate it…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …which is a…

Luke: Another service which I quite like as well is called bigresponse.com. They’re quite cheap and they’re a good service so.

Tim: What’s that do, same thing?

Luke: Similar. Similar thing. But more for the ad hoc emails that go out as well.

Tim: Righto. So Aweber, Big Response, put them in the show notes, back to James. Tip number three to get your website found?

James: Tip number three is social media in the form of Facebook, Twitter.

Tim: Really?

James: A range of these different services. Mainly because of the cost efficiency of them.

Tim: Yep.

James: Basically the big advantage for small business owners for social media is, you know, there’s no media cost. So if you go into search engines and you want to place some ads or alternatively if you want to get into display ads or pretty much any other form of online marketing, you’re going to have some sort of media cost.

Tim: Yep.

James: With social media, basically you invest your time, which shouldn’t be underestimated; it does take, you know, a significant…

Tim: It does.

James: Yeah. Yeah, you don’t get anything for nothing. You’ve got to, you know, the…the way…you know, the trade off is that you don’t pay for media but you’ve got to invest a lot of time into whatever, whether it’s Twitter or whether it’s Facebook or whatever.

Tim: Yep. What’s your favourite social media?

James: Personally…

Tim: Yep.

James: …mine is…well my blog. But Twitter is my service of choice.

Tim: I’m going to pull you up on your blog.

James: Yep.

Tim: Can I do that?

James: Absolutely.

Tim: Because I’m looking at your website.

James: Yep.

Tim: And AdAge Power Blogger 150, whatever that means.

James: Yeah.

Tim: Some kind of blog award. You are in the top 20 Aussie bloggers.

James: Correct.

Tim: But, and I could be wrong here…

James: I’m in trouble.

Tim: You are in trouble. How often on average would you update your blog?

James: Okay.

Tim: Hey.

James: Hey.

Tim: Have you been sick or have you been away or is your computer broken?

James: If you go back through my archives you’ll find that I used to be much more active than I am.

Tim: Yeah.

James: To last year, for pretty much all of the year I was updating it twice a week.

Tim: Yep.

James: Lately it’s been more like once a fortnight, which is clearly not in the bloggers’ handbook, you know.

Tim: No.

James: It should be much more frequently than that.

Tim: Yeah.

James: Don’t have a lot of defence except that I’ve been working hard and…

Tim: Come on, you got engaged.

James: …trying to plan a wedding.

Tim: How often should you blog?

James: There’s no rule. It’s just essentially do it as often as you can as much as you’re comfortable.

Tim: Yep.

James: Basically once you set an expectation with your audience, whether it’s once a fortnight or three times a week, the goal is to stick to that. Now, I’m not the best…

Tim: Yeah. Okay, so everything…

James: …example of that.

Tim: Okay.

James: But I try my best.

Tim: Lukers.

Luke: Timbo.

Tim: This is a massive one. I have many many clients, and I know you do too, about saying, oh, look, should I blog, shouldn’t I blog, if I do blog what am I going to write about, you know. So here are Tim and Luke’s top ten…what would you call them? Stimuli, for ongoing blogging.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: So we’re trying to give you some ideas that will get your creative juices flowing for just being able to blog on a regular basis.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: So number one, this is cheating, number one, guest blogger. Get someone else to write it.

Luke: Get someone else to write it.

Tim: Absolutely.

Luke: Yeah, very good.

Tim: So I’ve done that and it works and it’s nice, you know. It’s like having a holiday.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Number two?

Luke: Think about the questions that your customers ask you and answer those questions.

Tim: Oh, yeah, yeah, great idea. So, yeah, what are people ringing up about?

Luke: Yeah. And it’s sort of like…a bit like…you might have an FAQ on your website but expand on those with…

Tim: Yep.

Luke: …with explaining.

Tim: Number three, what tips can you tell your clients about your product or service.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: So just maybe expand on ways of getting the most out of what it is you offer.

Luke: Indeed. Comment on something that’s happening in your industry.

Tim: I was going to say that. Yeah, that’s a good one. Yeah, so like a bit of your point of view.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: That’s the thing about blogging, you know, it’s not about releasing press releases, it’s about having your own opinion.

Luke: Yeah, it doesn’t need to be formal.

Tim: No, no, no, no. Write it in your own speak…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …is a good thing. Whose go is it?

Luke: It’s yours.

Tim: What number are we up to?

Luke: I pinched that one. Number three.

Tim: Number three. No, we’re not; surely we’re past number three.

Luke: I know.

Tim: What are the most common questions you get from your prospects. You’ve done that. Oh, no.

Luke: There you go.

Tim: Okay, your go.

Luke: Pose a question to your audience.

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

Luke: You know, blogging is two way.

Tim: Yeah, it is.

Luke: If there’s something you want to know from your customers or from your readers, pose a question.

Tim: Okay. Number five or number six, whatever we’re up to. Discuss how you got started in the business.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Like every business has a story. So I think it’s worth revisiting that and sharing it and…

Luke: Humanise your business.

Tim: You could start it with, those were the days. Righto, next?

Luke: This one you’ve got to be careful. Comment on an inferior product that might be competing with yours. I’ve seen it done quite successfully. Because what you’re actually doing in a sly sort of way is that you’re actually including your competitors’ keywords in your article.

Tim: Clever, clever.

Luke: And show in a nice way how your product differs…

Tim: Very clever.

Luke: …or might be better. So…

Tim: A bit like coming in the backdoor. I think.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: I’m not sure. Now, number eight or nine or ten, what is the most rewarding thing about your job. So, like that enthusiasm like here is…I love it when a client does this or, you know, whatever.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And in fact the opposite.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: You can be, you know, you can wear your heart on your sleeve when you blog, I reckon.

Luke: Yeah, indeed.

Tim: Because it’s your personal view on things.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: I think that’s enough. But there is actually a lot more. And what we might do is put a link to a blog post that was written by someone who we like to follow in Chris Brogan.

Luke: Chris Brogan.

Tim: And he has written a whole list about how to blog almost every day. So we’ll whack that in our show notes which are slowly growing. And back to Jimmy. Lukey?

Luke: Can I just go back to email marketing. Now, James, you probably come…you come from a background where large companies, they’ve probably got large, massive, databases of…

James: Correct.

Luke: …of email addresses which is probably why they’re effective.

James: Yep.

Luke: Now, if I’m a small business and I’ve only got 100, well that’s probably not going to be an effective marketing avenue given that the response rate to emails is?

James: It depends on your database, the age of it, the products you’re selling, generally around 2%…

Tim: That’s bizarre.

James: …you can expect.

Tim: That’s 98% of people that it hasn’t worked on.

James: Yep.

Tim: It’s just bizarre, it’s like direct marketing statistics.

James: It’s consistent with a lot of…

Tim: Yeah.

James: …other channels.

Tim: Yeah, I know, it just doesn’t make sense.

Luke: So it would be safe to say that only when you’ve got a fairly large database of people it’s going to be effective?

James: I suppose you could say that. If…it depends how much you’re in…it’s the time versus…a cost versus benefit.

Luke: Yep.

James: If you’re not putting a lot of effort into developing HTML emails…am I going to get a boing for using HTML?

Tim: Oh, mate, that is like…

(Boing.)

(Boing.)

That’s a boing per letter.

(Boing.)

One more.

James: I think I’m up to ten already. If you’re just sending standard emails through Outlook and, you know, sending that out to your email database, you’re probably going to invest less than an hour in it. So, you know, if you make a couple of sales then you…it’s a good investment of your time.

Luke: Yep.

James: I would…I think you’re right, if there’s a small pool of customers then it’s going to be less effective. At the same time I think one of the primary goals should always be to build and grow that database…

Luke: Yep.

James: …if you can.

Tim: I’m going to wrap it up because it’s been…there’s a fair bit of information to go and digest there, with some very big words, Luke. I’m going to leave you with a question for our listeners and that is our listeners are getting a website developed, it all looks pretty, it all looks beautiful, it’s all online…

James: Yep.

Tim: …what question should they ask their developer to ensure it gets found?

James: Well search engine, however you optimise this site, what search engine optimisation have you done. It’s going to be hard for them to assess the answer of that because it’s a relatively technical field. What I will say about search engine optimisation is there’s a whole lot of information resources out there that are free and available.

Tim: Yep.

James: If you…you know, that have 20,000 plus.

Tim: What’s a good site to go to?

James: SEOmoz, S-E-O-M-O-Z, is one of the biggest SEO sites in the world.

Tim: Some fancy name, SEOmoz.

James: Search engine land is another one. You know, those are two of the biggest resources in the world. SEObook is another.

Tim: Okay.

James: They’re all giving out really high quality…

Tim: Easy to understand?

James: Look, I’m not going to say yes…

Luke: They both…a lot of those have beginner’s guides.

Tim: Okay, all right.

Luke: Yeah, the ones that James has mentioned.

Tim: James Duthie, been a pleasure.

James: Thank you.

Luke: Thanks, James.

James: Thanks for having me.

It’s about time. Not since show 4 have we been blessed with the presence of a female. Although some would argue that Luke can be a bit of a girl sometimes! Today we chat with Michelle Skoglund, a breath of fresh air in the real estate industry. Michelle opened up an Agency called Aqua, a real estate agency that’s more like a premium clothing brand than a place that sells property. Having learnt all she knows from the likes of Qantas and Hyatt Hotels, not only has she created a beautiful brand, but her customer service is second to none. The result…in just 12-months she’s built a business that is the market leader in it’s area. Tune in and hear how she does it.

Duration: 26 Minutes

In other news, and thanks to your feedback, we’re not far away from announcing an exciting new service called Spotlight…Just for you.

Aqua Real Estate

Tim’s Marketing Coaching Package

Marketing Samuri (Research a Niche before you spend hours developing a product or service.)

Book Tim and/or Luke for your next Marketing workshop or conference

Podcast Transcription

Tim: Lukey, Lukey, Lukey, welcome back, my friend.
Luke: How are you, Timbo?

Tim: I’m very excited, mate. Welcome back, listeners, to Episode 11. Before we launch into who and what is Episode 11, it is an exciting episode because we are launching a new product…

Luke: Shortly.

Tim: …called…shortly, yeah, not in this episode but in episode, but in episode, what do we call that, 11.1?

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: The one after this anyway.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Probably 12. It’s called Spotlight and, listeners, it’s a result of feedback we’ve got from you and it’s all about you and it’s a pretty exciting little product, it’s highly personalised.

Luke: Yep. And it will be confidential as well.

Tim: Well, yeah, confidential for those who decide to take up the offer.

Luke: Yeah, yep.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: So it’s called Small Business Big Marketing Spotlight and we will be launching it in the episode after this, so stay tuned for that. Now, Luke, Michelle Skoglund.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Aqua Real Estate.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: She’s breaking all the rules.

Luke: She has broken all the rules, Timbo; she’s set herself up in a crowded marketplace.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: And we’re going to hear about how she differentiates herself from the crowd.

Tim: I reckon it’s an episode all about point of difference and without further ado let’s hear what Michelle has to say. What fascinates me about Aqua Real Estate is that you have…how old is the business, like six months, 12 months?

Michelle: It’ll be coming up mid September will be 12 months.

Tim: So 12 months old. You decided at some point to open up a business in a marketplace that has eight in a small village, small beachside village in Melbourne, in a marketplace that has eight shopfront real estate agents and probably another eight who are operating out of their home. Fairly crowded marketplace I would have thought.

Michelle: Very.

Tim: What was the light that went off in your head that said, I reckon there’s just…I reckon there’s room for another?

Michelle: I think it came from personal experience in looking to buy property myself. And I come from a customer service background and I worked for the Hyatt chain, I worked for Qantas for ten years.

Tim: Hostie?

Michelle: Yes, I was a customer service manager.

Tim: Not a hostie?

Michelle: Not a…well I started as a hostie. And I just found that I never sort of got any type of customer service when I was looking and I found it really frustrating because I was ready to buy and I found no one ever called me back and there was that old style mentality of if you want the property you’ll chase, but I was so…I was one of those buyers that I just needed a little bit of encouragement and I would have…I could have been pushed because I really wanted to buy. But at the same time I wanted to do my research and I really wanted to explore the market and I just wanted some feedback because I didn’t know Mount Eliza. My husband who’s not…he’s from Sweden and when he first came to Melbourne he ended up in Mount Eliza and he saw this beautiful big old yellow house close to the water and he just thought, wow, this looks such a beautiful place to live. And when we met, he said, “What do you think about Mount Eliza?”, I said, “Where? Where’s Mount Eliza?”, thinking it’s in the mountains. And anyway so then we just, you know, went down there and, yeah, we thought it was beautiful. But I’d always known more of the Peninsula with the Sorrento and down that way.

Tim: So you’d identified a gap, when you were looking for a house in the Mount Eliza market, that you just weren’t getting…there was no customer service and there was like, here is an opportunity to create…despite the fact that there’s 16 other real estate agents doing what you’re thinking of doing.

Luke: Sixteen? It was eight last time.

Tim: Well there’s eight with shops and eight…

Michelle: Eight shops.

Tim: …from homes.

Michelle: Yeah.

Tim: Don’t get picky. And so like…

Michelle: Say 16.

Tim: So you identified a gap and filled it, that what you’ve done?

Michelle: Yeah, absolutely.

Tim: What I reckon you’ve done too, and one of the reasons we’ve got you in here, because we interview people who we think are doing great marketing, is that you’re not like the other eight…let just focus on the eight with the shopfront real estate agents in the village.

Michelle: Sure.

Tim: You’re not like them.

Michelle: No.

Tim: Okay, so tell us about that, that’s courageous.

Michelle: Yeah, well what I found was people were attracted to my style of selling, which was just customer service, which was giving people time, giving them product knowledge, explaining what facilities were available and, you know, I really did know my market. Because I spent three years trying to find something myself, I got to know the properties, I got to know the marketplace and I was also one of those typical families that’s moving from town who’s looking for a different sort of lifestyle for their family, a more affordable one, sort of a little bit more freer, where you can buy half an acre or three-quarters or, you know, and your kids can just climb trees and have fun. So I basically decided that it’s time for me to go back to work, I’d had three children, and I was one of those mums who was sort of a little bit, you know, wondering well what am I doing tomorrow, am I going to have coffee or am I going to play tennis or hang on I just…

Tim: Some big decisions there.

Michelle: Big decision. And I just could see myself thinking…it was fun to do it for, you know, four or five years and I gave my children what they needed, what I felt they needed and what…I loved it, but then it was time for me to go back. And so I went and got my agent’s rep and I got a job with a local agent and I got into this business and I thought, God, you know, I could do so much more if I had my own business. I could really develop something here, a concept. So I decided to…

Tim: And you obviously believed in it too, because I think many people would have thought, oh, yeah, I could do it better than them, but to actually believe in it and set something up that is so vastly different. I mean, we’ll put a photo up in the show notes to show what your office looks like, but just describe it because, you know, every other real estate agent in the world I’m sure looks the same but you’ve kind of challenged that a bit, haven’t you?

Michelle: Yeah.

Tim: Tell us about your office.

Michelle: Well what I decided was, it was a personal choice, I thought here I am, I’m going to be sitting in an office, it’s going to be really difficult for me to go back to work, especially with the type of jobs that I’ve had previously where I could sort of go anywhere I wanted, you know, flying and I sort of…I wasn’t restricted to certain business hours. And I also felt what do people…what are they looking, it’s highly competitive in every industry and presentation’s a huge factor and I wanted someone to feel relaxed but also to have a bit of an edge, that they’re dealing with the top end and that’s predominantly my marketplace, so I decided…it just all fell into place pretty quickly, I found a shop, decided to decorate it to where I feel comfortable.

Tim: Interior decorate it, I think…

Michelle: Interior decorate it, yes. But really when you look at it, you’re selling people’s homes, you’re selling homes, and most people love buying good looking, you know, they love…when a home’s decorated beautifully, it’s nice and neutral, most people can see themselves in there, they’re just like, wow, this is great, can I afford it. So with my shop I wanted to draw people in and I wanted them to sort of look and think, what is this shop, is this, you know, is this a real estate shop or is it a furniture shop.

Tim: What you’ve actually done by default, and whether you know it or not, I look at it and go, you’ve created a brand, you’ve created a brand that people would be proud to have the board, the Aqua, the business is called at Aqua, you’d be happy to have the Aqua board out the front. It’s like a…it’s almost like a clothing label, you know, that board and the logo. When you see all the other logos of the real estate agents around the place, they’re just real estate agent logos.

Michelle: Yeah.

Tim: But you’ve almost taken a fashion strategy and not a real estate agent strategy. And I don’t know whether you know that or not but I look at it as a marketer and go, you know, you’ve nailed it, funky wallpaper, really nice antiques, even the colour, you know, the colour aqua…

Luke: If you didn’t have the advertisements for the houses in the front window…

Tim: Go and buy a chair.

Michelle: Yeah.

Luke: It really doesn’t look like a stuffy old real estate agent.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: All right, we’re just going to pause Michelle there for a second to talk about visual image and also to remind everyone that I am actually in this show.

Tim: Hello, Luke.

Luke: G’day, Tim.

Tim: What are you doing here? Are you part of this show?

Luke: Yeah, well so far I’ve let you do all the talking.

Tim: Yeah, I have, I’ve been a bit sort of…I’m excited.

Luke: You are excited.

Tim: Michelle is doing really really good things. And I think it’s really important that we…clearly this is not a show about real estate, but how this…the kind of stuff that Michelle’s sharing, there’s some learnings in it for all small businesses and how they go about their marketing.

Luke: Yep. And she’s certainly created a couple of different points of difference compared to the other people in the street.

Tim: Just visually, I mean, we’re going to have to put some pictures up on…in the show notes, because clearly you and I know the kind of visual image Michelle is creating with her business Aqua. But I guess, listeners, what the point is here is that don’t underestimate the power of your visual brand, because it’s so powerful and it can make you look so big, you know.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: If you get it right, if you get your visual image right, you know, the logo and the look of your business, it can actually make you look big and very important, Luke.

Luke: Yeah, differentiates you from the rest.

Tim: Correct, correct. Yeah, you might not want to look big and important, but it does give you a sense of credibility and I’ve just been dealing with some logo development for a couple of clients recently and found a wonderful wonderful wonderful designer who just does beautiful logo design work and translates it across all the various touch points of the businesses, but not only does she create great looking logos, there’s a really strong idea in there too.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Which I think is important.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: That might be for another show, but I just think what Michelle is doing is just so incredible. That notion of creating like almost a fashion brand for this…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …this real estate business is quite interesting.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Because it’s a big point of difference. And I think this show is about point of difference.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: Yep. All right, let’s go back and we’ll hear a bit more from Michelle.

Tim: Lovely.

Michelle: It’s interesting that you picked that concept up about fashion, because when we went and we were trying to find a graphic designer, and this was all new to me, I had no idea who even to use for a brochure and it’s not printed on a lot of brochures, you know. I look at the big brands like the Kay & Burtons and the RT Edgars and obviously they do well, and you look at, it’s such a boys club too, it’s very masculine, the branding. It’s professional but they’re all the same. You know, it’s navy blue, it’s, you know, bold text but it’s quite simple. So then I decided, right, I’m a bit more…I’m another level than that, I’m not part of a boys club, I’m really a strong sort of independent woman but there’s a feminine side as well which I, you know, which I do successfully portray I think because I can…I understand both sides to people. And when I went to the graphic designer, he said what do you like and I said well, you know, without sounding corny, you know, I really am drawn to labels and fashion, you know, like most women I think and men. You know, you sort of have a look and you’re drawn to it, marketing is really clever. So I got up the Ralph Lauren website and Gucci and all these really strong brands and they were so simple.

Luke: Who’s that at the door, Timbo?

Tim: Lukey, it is…it’s the designer. This is a really interesting point because it’s about getting your creative brief right.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And I think so often…I’m amazed at how many…when I brief something into a new designer, often they don’t say, oh here’s our creative brief form, can you fill it out.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: In fact I often ask.

Luke: Yep. Having been a web developer/designer in my previous life…

Tim: Yep.

Luke: …it’s something that I learnt to develop fairly quickly over time is that to…you need a…as a designer you want a succinct comprehensive brief.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: You don’t want someone saying to you I’ll know it once I see it.

Tim: Oh, no, no, no.

Luke: I wish I had a dollar for every time someone told me that.

Tim: Yeah. But also as the small business person briefing in design, you know, if you haven’t got that kind of…if you haven’t been trained in how to brief…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …it can be quite hard. And I think what Michelle has done in highlighting a couple of…like I like Gucci and I like Ralph Lauren, it actually shows where she’s coming from from a design point of view and that provides really strong direction.

Luke: Yep. I think another good way to do it is start a scrapbook, start…

Tim: Oh.

Luke: Look through magazines…

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: …whether they be…

Tim: Wonderwall.

Luke: Yeah, yeah. And start cutting out things that you feel are perhaps synonymous with your brand.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: Or with your style.

Tim: I think…because this is…once again this show is all about point of difference the more and more we get into it, and that’s about like saying to the designer, when you’re briefing in whether it be a logo or a brochure, a website or whatever, identify, like here’s some things to do, here’s three things to do, Luke.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Okay. Identify your business’ personality, and that is what are those three to five words that best describe your business.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: If I met your business at a barbecue, you know, would you walk away saying, gee, that business is blah, blah, blah, you know, exciting, funny, influential, whatever it is. So come up with those personality traits.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Okay. Brands that you like, tell your designer, I love these brands. Whenever I get someone designing something for me, and it’s always the same person now, but he knows I love Apple.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: So he knows that if he borrows some design cues from Apple…

Luke: Or she.

Tim: Or she, yes, absolutely.

Luke: More recently it’s been a she.

Tim: It has been a she, yeah, new designer.

Luke: Anyway, sorry, third.

Tim: Yeah. Yeah, well thank you, Luke, for reminding me of that because I forgot that designers could be both female and male.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: That’s amazing. And the third one is…so, personality, brands you like and if your brand was a public figure, who would it be.

Luke: That’s a tough one actually.

Tim: Yeah. Well I’m not asking you to answer it.

Luke: Right.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. So, you know, we maybe talk about that later.

Luke: Yeah, correct.

Tim: It’s like it’s a really good way of saying, you know, my brand embodies these particular traits and when you say about a public figure, mention a public figure, it’s a good way to bring it to life.

Luke: Mmm.

Tim: Mmm.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: So love it.

Luke: God stuff.

Tim: Back to Michelle. That’s brilliant. I mean, even that way you briefed the designer is actually…we’re pumping Michelle’s tyres up here a bit too, aren’t we?

Michelle: Yeah, thanks guys, thanks. I appreciate it, it was worth the drive.

Tim: Yeah, no, it’s all right. Find some negative questions on that list, Luke.

Michelle: I’m sure there’s some…

Tim: It’s interesting because…

Luke: Usually our interviewees walk out of here crying…

Tim: Yeah, that’s right.

Luke: ….after they have a chat with you, Tim.

Tim: Oh, no, but I think…look, you know, real estate is such an old tired industry. I mean, I’ll say that as a marketing person…

Michelle: Oh, it is.

Tim: …I look at it and I go, gosh, can every real estate agent just line up outside my door because I’d like to give you all some free marketing advice. Because it does my head in, it’s just so…

Luke: Just on that, Michelle, what are real estate agents doing wrong, so what are they doing wrong that obviously you’re changing, what are the things they’re doing wrong?

Michelle: Well they’re just; I suppose they’re portraying a typical real estate agent. They’re not showing their individual style and who they are. And they’re feeling that they need to all look the same, drive a BMW, you know, if you’re going to cliché it.

Tim: What do you drive? Oh, I know what you drive so…

Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, no, I’m very…I’m quite conservative; I’ve got a safe family Audi.

Tim: Yeah, very conservative, no bling in that.

Michelle: No, I don’t have flashy wheel hubs or anything, it’s…

Tim: Okay.

Michelle: But I’m old enough to have a nice car, I think.

Tim: You are.

Michelle: Yes. I’ve worked hard for it, yeah.

Tim: So what are they doing wrong, what are your competitors doing wrong?

Michelle: Oh, I just don’t think they’re putting anything into it.

Tim: No.

Michelle: I don’t think they put themselves into it. I think they sit behind a desk and they’ve got a phone and they expect the business to come to them.

Tim: Yep.

Michelle: What I’m finding is, and what I always did, and I know how I like to be treated, is that I like to meet someone and like at a Saturday open for inspection, people are coming in and out, you really don’t get time to know them or they know you. So I really try to, midweek, do one on ones with couples, find out what they’re looking for and then take that next step of visually trying to put them into a home. And I think the biggest difference that I do is that I try and qualify my purchaser to save them time. And I will, you know, I’ve got my own way, I’ve got a huge database and I make sure it’s a current database and I ring people regularly and I, you know, I do my best when people ring up and say they’re looking for a home, you know, I…we really…there’s a few different systems that we’ve got in place because no one’s perfect and you can sometimes miss people, but we’ve…I’ve got an assistant who backs me up as well and we have a great database of going back, you know, into our current purchasers. And over the past six months, just ringing people and finding out are they still in the marketplace, have they found what they want, have they changed their direction, because initially…

Tim: Do you do most of that calling?

Michelle: Yes.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, so it’s a very personal thing.

Michelle: Yeah.

Tim: Customer service, Lukey.

Luke: Pretty important and it’s obviously one of Michelle’s main points of difference.

Tim: Oh, yeah. Yeah, well she’s playing on the fact that she was…she’s got massive experience from previous employment. I think she talks about how she worked for Hyatt and Qantas.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And it’s about actually learning from what you’ve done previously I suppose.

Luke: About six months ago, Tim, you and I were in a similar situation, both trying to sell our houses.

Tim: Yes.

Luke: And both expressed frustration at the level of service from real estate agents.

Tim: Lack of service.

Luke: Lack of customer service.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: And a quote that I always remember…

Tim: Just in case the one who ended up selling my house is listening, she actually did a really good job.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: But, yeah, in fact…

Luke: The one that was selling my house, initial one that was selling my house, didn’t.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: And it makes me think of a quote…

Tim: Yes.

Luke: …of yours, Timbo.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: And that is, if there’s nothing you have to tell them, call them and tell them…hang on…what…you tell me, what is it?

Tim: If you’ve got nothing to tell them…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …call them and tell them you’ve got nothing to tell them.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Which is just basically about the fact that people are wondering if you’re still working on their case or their job.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Or, you know, are they…

Luke: It lets…

Tim: Are you thinking about…

Luke: It lets you know that you’re thinking of them.

Tim: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That came from the fact that I used to be the marketing manager at a large travel agency in Australia and I used to get complaints from customers coming through from the stores and it was the fact that the agents in the stores never rang the customer and said, hey, look, I’m still working on that question you asked, I just haven’t got an answer yet.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Which is quite valid, it’s just as valid as ringing and saying here’s the answer.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: You know. But customer service, I wrote a blog on it this week…

Luke: Blog post, yeah.

Tim: …by coincidence, a blog post, and just saying like a lot of those stack them high sell them low retailers don’t offer very good customer service.

Luke: Yeah, yeah.

Tim: I got canned a bit actually. I wonder whether some staff members of the ones that I mentioned had read my post. But, you know, I just think that, you know, just because you’re selling things cheap, for example, I mean, what’s a smile cost?

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Or a bit of eye contact. Or just spending time to understand your customers’ needs and maybe even reiterating it to the customer as you come back to them with a solution.

Luke: Yeah, doing what Michelle’s doing and calling the people that she’s dealt with previously, regularly…

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: …to see if they’re still in the market.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: You know, showing that she’s still thinking of them, she still cares and invariably that will pick up an opportunity.

Tim: Showing the love, Luke.

Luke: That’s right, everyone needs love.

Tim: Lovely.

Luke: Back to Michelle.

Tim: So your Hyatt and Qantas set you up for some pretty decent customer service kind of training.

Michelle: Yes.

Tim: What are your top three?

Michelle: Well first of all is to listen to the purchaser. So take down notes of what they are actually after. Find out really what their biggest needs are and what’s priority for them. So you generally get people who always shop above what they can afford and it’s just human nature. So you’ve always got that wish list. And I tell people, I’ll never say to anyone you’re dreaming, you’re never going to be able to afford that, but I say do your research, spend time, have a look, and then you might have to start taking a few different items off the list. Number two is offer advice of where I think they’d be best suited, if they’re happy for that. And just constant…and the third one is constant communication, just keep in contact with people. And say to them as well, look, if you haven’t heard…I’ll say to some people, if you haven’t heard from me, it’s not with me forgetting you, it’s just that I haven’t found what you’re looking for.

But check my website, check, you know, the other realestate.com or whichever tool you use to look for property and we’ll keep in contact. So email is fantastic. I mean, 70% of the marketplace statistically say they use the Internet.

Tim: Yeah.

Michelle: And, yes, the Internet is great, but gee there’s a lot of people who still don’t feel comfortable with it.

Tim: Really?

Michelle: Yeah. And I still recommend…

Tim: What age are they, what age bracket is that?

Michelle: There’s a lot of women in their sort of late 40s, 50s, 60s. And men, a lot of men who are maybe retired now, sort of refuse to use it.

Tim: Wow.

Michelle: They just don’t feel that comfortable.

Tim: Okay. And tell me (22:02) sales, I know, Luke, you’ve probably got a question, am I keeping…

Luke: No, no, go on, go on.

Tim: …you from talking?

Luke: Yep, go on.

Tim: You’re not getting sad? What is…what’s the big close, how do you close a sale? Tell us a bit about the sale strategy here, what’s your big closing line?

Michelle: Well the cliché with most real estate agents would say, oh, I’ve got a number of people already interested in the property. The best way to sell a property is to show the buyer that there is competition. So you really want at an open…and I find at the moment really there’s not a lot of tyre kickers, which you’d call, around. The people that are looking are generally looking. A lot of people have put their lives on hold, you know, with the economy, and have…and felt very unsure whether to, you know, borrow money or to, you know, to sell and buy. So with properties now, and when I’m selling them, it’s just…I mean…

Tim: They sell themselves. Lukey, this is worth stopping for. Because there’s a fundamental marketing concept being talked about here which the intellectuals would call scarcity.

Luke: Scarcity, indeed.

Tim: Yep, act as if there is a limited amount of what it is that you have to offer.

Luke: With…

Tim: Go on.

Luke: It’s easy enough for Michelle when she’s selling a property of which there is only one of and they’re…

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: …fairly unique.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: So how does someone make their product scarce, Tim?

Tim: Well I just think you’ve got to make it look as though, and maybe there is a scarcity, which is a good thing, but if there isn’t, you’ve still got to make it look as though there is a limited amount of what it is you have to offer. And even if you’re a service provider, I mean, you’ve only got a limited amount of time.

Luke: Yeah. I notice that you’ve done something similar on your website, Tim.

Tim: I have, I have, funny you should mention that, Luke.

Luke: With your coaching.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. So like I offer coaching packages and I…I can only at any one time have ten clients who I provide marketing coaching for. So on my marketing coaching page, so if you go to TheIdeasGuy.com.au, listeners, and click on marketing coaching on the front page there, I do say to avoid disappointment you might like to email me to see if there are any spaces available. Because I do only have ten spaces, because that’s the amount of time…

Luke: Well you haven’t actually got ten available at the moment, do you, Tim?

Tim: No, I don’t, absolutely not.

Luke: No.

Tim: In fact right now I’ve got a couple. But that floats, you know, in between having none and having a few. But you’ve got to create that sense of scarcity and make people want…

Luke: Online marketers seem to do it very well, even if they’re selling an eBook, by having a limited time discount.

Tim: Yep, yep.

Luke: You know, first 500 copies are going for $57 then it’s going to jump back up to 97.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: That’s creating scarcity so.

Tim: And of course there’s an unlimited amount of eBooks.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: But it is, you can apply a filter of price across that and create scarcity of certain price or for a certain time you get an additional something but it’s a great strategy.

Luke: It is.

Tim: All right. Well we shall go back and to the end of Michelle’s interview, I think we’re nearly at the end, aren’t we?

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Hey, Michelle, thanks for coming in.

Michelle: Pleasure.

Luke: Thanks, Michelle.

Tim: You’ve got a nice dinner to go to now.

Michelle: Yes, I have, hopefully.

Tim: Yeah, that’s right. Might be cold by the time you get there. But thanks for sharing.

Michelle: That’s a pleasure. Thank you for inviting me in, it’s been great fun.

Tim: And our listeners should go and have a look at aquarealestate.com.au to see what we’ve been talking about.

Michelle: Thank you, yes.

Tim: Buy a house.

Michelle: Yes, come and see me, anytime.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: Thanks, Michelle.

Luke: Thanks, Michelle.

Michelle: Thanks. Bye.

David Curry, ex advertising exec of over 20-years, cleverly identified a gap in the iPhone application market…one that he himself would never use in a million years; but one that over 150,000 American females just had to have. David shares with us how he identified the gap, how he went about filling the gap and he he promoted it on a shoestring budget of just $1,000. If you’ve ever thought of developing an iPhone app then this interview is for you. We also answer the question of whether you should have a personal and business Twitter account. Plus we share some gold if you’re looking to outsource some of the more mundane jobs in your business. So, you ready for some more Marketing goodness?

Durration: 37:00

Dave’s iPhone App Haircaster

Download a Market Samaria Trial – Market Research Tool

Replace Myself – Hiring a Virtual Assistant

Podcast Transcription

Tim: Lukey, Lukey, Lukey. Now, hello listeners and welcome back to whatever number episode this is of Small Business Big Marketing.
Luke: I think it might be number ten actually.

Tim: Number ten. Now, before we push the record button, I just want to share something with you, because I said to Luke, should I start talking when we push record and should I start with, Lukey, Lukey, Lukey, and what did you say, Luke?

Luke: I sort of suggested that I’m not really comfortable with that. But, you know, maybe it’s becoming the call sign of our show, something that we start with.

Tim: But you got a bit sad.

Luke: No, I didn’t. No.

Tim: You did.

Luke: No, no.

Tim: There was a little twinkle in your eye saying, Tim, you’re treating me like a child or…

Luke: No, not at all, no, no. And perhaps it’s branding, Tim.

Tim: Well maybe it is but I want you to come clean with our listeners as to why it’s touching a soft spot.

Luke: I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. It just doesn’t sound right to me, but that’s all right.

Tim: Well I don’t think you’re being honest.

Luke: No, I’m…I’m…I’m cool.

Tim: All right, well…

Luke: Let’s get on with the show; we’ve got a lot to get through.

Tim: I’m sorry, yes, absolutely we have, we have. Don’t tune out, guys, we will, we’ll actually talk some very smart marketing ideas…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …for small business.

Luke: And we’ll settle this argument later.

Tim: Correct, correct. And if you’ve got a point of view, just send it in.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Luke?

Luke: Questions@SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com.

Tim: Yes, correct. Hey, last week’s episode, Luke Harvey-Palmer, personal branding, went down a treat.

Luke: Yeah, there was a lot in that and we’ve certainly had a lot of positive comments about it. So if you haven’t listened to the episode…

Tim: Yeah, do.

Luke: …go back and listen to it, there’s a lot of good material.

Tim: There was. It was like a…it was very juicy.

Luke: It was.

Tim: A bit like a big fresh orange off a tree. And, you know, one of the things, one of the major things that came out of it was this question around so what do you do, yeah.

Luke: Mmm.

Tim: And it got quite a bit of discussion, I did a little YouTube video on it, we got some feedback on email about, gee that’s an important question to ask. I’ve had people come in to me on Twitter saying, hey, this is what I think I do, what do you think about it. So we might just quickly revisit that notion of, you know, the question is what do you do. I’ll give you an example, I presented to a bunch of jewellers earlier this week.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: In a workshop environment, and I challenged them to answer the question what do you do and they all said, well we’re jewellers.

Luke: We make jewellery.

Tim: We make jewellery, diamond rings in fact.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: But, you know, that is the kind of rational answer and I said, look, spend five minutes thinking about what you really do, you know, what benefit do you give to your prospects and customers and after five minutes they were coming back with stuff like, oh, you know what, we make family heirlooms or we make people feel special. And all of a sudden their whole mindset changed around what it is their brand does.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Yeah, so that was kind of nice. In terms of what I do, I say when people ask me…

Luke: What do you do, Tim?

Tim: I’m glad you asked, Luke, I make…I show businesses how to be so irresistible that it makes competing with them less desirable. Hey? Oh, right.

Luke: I’m not sure whether to shake your hand or vomit. But that’s a good one, I like that.

Tim: Oh, thank you, thank you. Still I don’t know whether to believe you anymore. But what do you do?

Luke: I help businesses market themselves online.

Tim: Okay, okay. I might vomit, I mean, I might shake your hand. Okay, so, listeners, just I think it’s a good exercise to do is to ask yourself what do you really do, move away from the rational job description of what it is you do and think about it in a kind of emotional benefit driven way. Let’s move on, Lukey, what else have we got?

Luke: We’ve got some…well a listener question…

Tim: Yeah, it’s a good question.

Luke: …at the end of the podcast. And it’s about Twitter accounts.

Tim: Should I have one, should I have two.

Luke: Should I have two.

Tim: Should I have three.

Luke: Should I have three, yes. So we’re going to answer that later on.

Tim: That’s sort of a personal versus business question.

Luke: Correct.

Tim: So today’s guest.

Luke: Today’s guest.

Tim: Dave Curry.

Luke: David Curry.

Tim: Dave Curry. Dave Curry is an iPhone application success story.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: You know, we would…I was going to use guru or expert but I know he doesn’t like that.

Luke: No.

Tim: And the fact is he is a success story.

Luke: He doesn’t profess to be a guru but he has found a niche.

Tim: Correct. He has found a niche and ripper niche. And Dave is going to share with us how he went about doing it. Interestingly enough, you know, I’ll just go back to this jewellers’ conference I was at the other day and they hadn’t heard of iPhone apps, or not many of them had…

Luke: Yes.

Tim: …and I…

Luke: And how did you explain to them what an iPhone app is?

Tim: Very good question, I was going to ask you to define one. Basically it’s a little application you can put on your iPhone that, gosh, you know, can…there’s an application for pretty much any…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Anything.

Luke: There’s thousands, if not hundreds of thousands.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. Weather, games, you know, money, lifestyle, music, whatever it is, there’s something you will find…and in fact I said to the jewellers, look, I did a quick search on iTunes, found an iPhone application for diamond jewellers. And what it was, it was amazing, it was like pick your diamond ring…pick your stone, pick the ring or the band, take a photo of your hand and then put it…actually positions…

Luke: Superimpose the ring on your…

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: To see what it looks like.

Tim: Yeah. And then at the end, once you’d found the ring that you liked, use Google Maps to find out where’s the closest place to buy it so.

Luke: Brilliant.

Tim: It was brilliant.

Luke: Absolutely brilliant.

Tim: Very clever. So…

Luke: The disappointing thing about iPhone apps is that if you think you’ve come up with a new novel app, think again.

Tim: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’ll be out there.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Yeah. But that’s not a reason not to have a crack.

Luke: That’s true, that’s true.

Tim: Because they are…they’re a relatively inexpensive thing to develop.

Luke: And you can always…there’s…or you can always compete in the marketplace.

Tim: Yeah, correct. Just be better than the others.

Luke: Correct.

Tim: You know. So Dave Curry, iPhone app success story. The iPhone app that he invented is called Haircaster. He’s going to explain what that’s all about and we first started by asking Dave how he came up with the idea.

David: Basically I’d worked in advertising for the last 20 years and a lot of that involved developing new products or being involved in the development of new products and looking at how you market them and so the business I’m in now is actually video production, not iPhone applications, but like a lot of people got an iPhone and the temptation of making an application was too great. But what we did is we took a strategic approach to it, applying some basic marketing rules and…

Tim: Which were?

David: Well essentially that…looking for a gap in the market essentially was the trick because it’s one thing to think you want to have an application but there are, at last I heard, over 50,000 applications.

Tim: Wow.

Luke: Wow.

David: And almost anything you think of you dial up on iTunes you’ll find not only one example, it may be four or five and some of them are free. So you could spend a lot of money and a lot of time, or waste a lot of money and a lot of time, just coming up with something or reinventing wheels that have already been invented. So we took an approach which was to try and identify a gap in the market. And I guess the first big step on that one was looking at who are iPhone users and I guess the big break or the big thing that we discovered was that, which was a surprise to us, is that more than 50% of iPhone owners are women. In fact in the US…

Tim: How did you find this out? There’s…

David: Well…

Luke: Have you had those statistics…

Tim: A quick bit of research online?

David: Yeah, well I mean to be honest with you, that’s all it was.

Tim: Yep.

David: And it’s amazing what you can do online now.

Tim: Absolutely, absolutely.

David: And it really was…I mean, you’ve got to be wary of what you find online but we went online and basically asked that question of Google and you can verify it once you see two or three different sources confirming the same thing. And we were actually surprised by that so we did look into it a bit more but definitely in the US, which was our first market, more than 50% of iPhone users or owners were women. So when we looked though at the applications it seemed that most of them were either male oriented, action games and so forth.

Tim: Fart sound effects.

David: Fart sound effects.

Tim: Very big.

David: They were either male oriented or kind of gender neutral but not a lot, although there were plenty, there weren’t that many that were aimed specifically at women. So that was really, you know, and that just came from sitting down and looking at it strategically rather than thinking what do we want…

Tim: Yep.

David: Or a crazy idea that’s come into our head, but rather, first of all, before we even started to think about an application, look at where there might be gaps in the market which is…

Luke: Find the need first.

David: Yeah. And, I mean, that’s the same sort of principle that, you know, you’d apply with a big marketing company looking to launch a new product versus…

Tim: Yeah, but how many people don’t, how many small business owners just go I’m going to buy…you know, it’s like I was saying to someone the other day, I live in a little…kind of my shopping centre is a little village. There’s like 11 real estate agents and a shop came up for…a vacant shop came up and there’s ten hairdressers, there’s now 11 hairdressers.

David: Yeah.

Tim: It’s like at what point did someone realise that there was a need, am I missing something, like is there a massive need to get haircuts where I live or…don’t say anything, you’re looking at my do as if it needs a shoe. You wouldn’t put a shoe on a do, would you, really?

David: I think one of the traps you fall into is that when you’re thinking of new products, it’s all too easy to base your thinking on those things that you already know or something you’ve already seen or a minor variation…

Tim: Yeah.

David: …of what you’ve already seen and so if you just put yourself through the process of looking for what the gaps in the market are, that really does help you think about it in a different way and at least focus your energies on something where there is actually a gap in the market.

Tim: Lukey.

Luke: Tim.

Tim: We’ve just stepped out of the studio for a minute and we want to talk about Dave.

Luke: Behind his back.

Tim: Behind his back. No, look, David…I’ve known David for many many years and he is a very very considered middle aged man, and that’s what I love about him. He has really…

Luke: I don’t think you needed to add middle aged to that, Tim.

Tim: Well he’s not young, he’s my age. Have a guess what that is. So the thing is, you know, he is considered and that’s a very very wonderful talent, and I’ve said this to him before where it’s like, you know, some of us shoot from the hip and go for an idea and hope to God that it works, others put the research in and really roll up the sleeves and put the time and effort in to establishing, hey, is there a market there, you know.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: And that’s what Dave’s done. And you’ve got a wonderful idea for those of us, and I’ll put myself in the shoot from the hip basket, but what’s your idea?

Luke: I’m going back to a couple of episodes previous there were some tips on how to find what people are asking for, (10:51) but I do have a great little product that I found recently that helps you do research on essentially keywords, so what people are typing into a search engine and it’s called Market Samurai.

Tim: We’ll whack it in the show notes.

Luke: Yeah, we’ll whack it in the show notes. And basically it allows you to put in…put in a keyword and then find similar keywords and find out how much competition there is for those keywords, how many other websites there are, how many people are searching on those terms per day, what sort of traffic you can expect to your site, so it allows you to do some basic research around a keyword term that people are searching for before you go and, you know, build a website or develop another product.

Tim: So Market Samurai is actually very good for, particularly if you’re doing a Google AdWords campaign, but in terms of its application for an iPhone app…

Luke: Yep.

Tim: …it’s kind of like allowing you to key in a particular area, subject, topic and see how popular it is…

Luke: Yeah, correct.

Tim: …and if there is a gap.

Luke: If there’s a gap…because you can see…you might be able to see that there’s a lot of people searching for that particular term or particular need but there aren’t a lot of websites around it so in that way you’ll be able to see something that’s got high need but low competition.

Tim: Cool. Okay, well we’ll put Market Samurai in the show notes and we’ll sneak back into the studio and pretend we were never gone.

Luke: Back we go.

Tim: Back to Dave. So you’ve gone and identified a gap in the market and that gap is in an area, and we’ll share with our listeners now what that is, but it’s not something that you’ve spent a hell of a lot of time kind of in the world of hair. Because that is what it’s about, it’s an application about hair, correct?

David: Yeah.

Tim: So interesting that you haven’t gone, oh well, you know, I’m going to develop something that I really love, you’ve gone and identified something that you think a lot of other people will really love.

David: Well basically, yeah, what we did is, you know, having found…the application is…

Tim: Yep.

David: It’s called Haircaster. And basically the application’s a very simple one that uses the live weather data that the app pulls off the Internet at no cost, and it analyses that weather data and we can get it for any postcode area in the US, so essentially any suburb in the US you can dial in and it pulls the weather data including wind, rain and humidity and runs it through a formula that we developed and forecasts…

Tim: An algorithm.

David: An algorithm. And…I didn’t even know what an alg…I couldn’t…

Tim: No, I don’t…I still don’t…

David: And now I’m writing them.

Tim: Are you really?

David: Yep.

Tim: I still don’t know what one was but I knew it was an algorithm that you’d developed is, anyway go on.

David: But you dial in your location and it just pulls the live weather data and gives you a readout on a simple scale that tells you what kind of hair day you can expect and for, you know, for most women will be familiar with the concept of a bad hair day or a good hair day.

Tim: Yep.

David: And it’s basically affected by largely the humidity in the air but also the wind and the rain…

Tim: Yep.

David: …play a role in it.

Tim: Wow.

Luke: Fantastic. So did you actually look at the science of bad hair as well?

David: Well…

Luke: You’ve said the humidity affects your hair, obviously you’ve looked into that.

David: Well we…I mean, again it was, you know, we have virtually no resources and not a lot of experience in that area, but it was…it’s something that most women are quite familiar with and to be honest our research was consulting a few hairdressers, a few professional hairdressers, and they, you know, it’s not a big mystery what causes a bad hair day, if the humidity is over a certain level and/or there’s wind and rain, you know, there are well established combinations of those weather factors that lead to a good day or a bad day…

Tim: And out it pops the other end of the algorithm. Bang.

Luke: Did you actually…did you consider selling it to a hair care product producer?

David: Well that’s our next, the next cause of action with this. What we decided to do, and I don’t know whether we made the right decision or the wrong decision, but what we decided to do is first get it out there and I guess find out whether we were going to be successful or not and then get some…get it out there on a number of iPhones so that we could go to, you know, a shampoo manufacturer, or whoever it might be that’s relevant, with a readymade pre-existing audience. So we just felt that that was the better approach to go down.

Tim: Okay, you developed an iPhone app, it sits on the iPhone, it sits on the Apple store, that’s good distribution, it gets into, potentially into the faces of millions of people. How do people find you?

David: Well that’s actually a really good question because, as I said, we’d done our homework on this application and we were pretty confident we had a good application and a gap in the market and all that sort of stuff, we put it out there, put it up on iTunes and, you know, I can tell you we were quite disappointed 24 hours later when we hadn’t sold 100,000 and…but we realised pretty quick that…

Tim: Because at that point you’ve just got a product on the shelf, you know…

David: Exactly.

Tim: You know, like…

David: Exactly. And…

Tim: You need traffic.

David: And that’s where we really learned the lesson about the need for publicity and marketing. Because no matter how good the application may have been no one is going to buy it if they don’t know it exists. And when you’ve got 50,000 other applications out there you can’t really rely on people just stumbling across it. So that’s when we got ourselves together again and started doing some really…

Tim: You regrouped after 24 hours.

David: Yep.

Tim: You hit a pretty low point in the business.

David: Cancelled the, you know, down payment on the jet.

Tim: Yeah, that’s right.

David: And…no, but we went back to doing some basic marketing and that involved a lot of hard work actually. It was many late nights of finding every blog we could to…

Tim: Oh, yeah.

David: …to publicise it on.

Tim: Yep.

David: It was…

Tim: So what did you do there, just for our listeners who might not realise, but what did you do, what do you mean finding every blog to publicise it on, what would you…

Luke: Did you mean leaving comments or do you mean approaching the blog owner and saying, hey, we’ve got this product, would you like to chat about it or?

David: Both actually. Basically sitting down and again Googling hair care, hair, those sorts of things, and find…I mean, the thing there is it turns out there are hundreds, if not thousands, of blogs. So it’s a lot of repetitive work just, you know, going after blog after blog, finding legitimate reasons often to make comments…

Tim: Yeah.

David: …on the blog in response to an article or something that was going on on the blog that gave us an opportunity to drop the name of the iPhone app, hopefully to a relevant audience. The blogging was just one thing. We looked at…I mean, again we don’t have major resources here so, you know, if we could…if we could have, you know, run a TV ad or got Apple to run our application, we would have been home and hosed, but we…that wasn’t available to us so it was really what we could do ourselves.

Tim: Okay, listeners, we’re just going to stop Dave there for a minute. Because it’s a fantastic idea that he does share with us and it’s an idea that all small business owners can do to improve their marketing, to improve your marketing, and it’s a simple one, it is a time consuming one, but so many ideas for small businesses, I think so many good ideas whilst are not money dependent, Luke…

Luke: Mmm.

Tim: Are you listening?

Luke: I am.

Tim: Are you sure?

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Okay. They’re not money dependent, they are time, you know, they’re…

Luke: Time consuming.

Tim: Yeah, they’re time consuming. And that’s okay. But Dave’s idea of Googling, looking for blogs that are relevant to what he has to sell and then going and leaving comments and/or approaching the writer of the blog is just a really good idea. And you can get a lot of link back traffic.

Luke: Yeah, as long as you’re leaving relevant comments and you’re adding value to those sites.

Tim: Yeah. Yeah, it’s not like buy, buy, buy, it’s like…

Luke: No. Because quite often bloggers will review comments before they make them live.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: So if they’re not contributing to their post…

Tim: Yep.

Luke: …or to their website then they just won’t publish them. So make sure it is relevant.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: And, Tim, you’ve got some suggestions on if people don’t have the time.

Tim: It’s an…it’s a suggestion, and it’s a really good one, because I’ve been using it myself, so this idea of some of these time consuming marketing ideas, you could employ a virtual assistant.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And I’ve come across a website, and we’ll leave it in the show notes, I’ve been subscribed now for three months, got myself a VA and it is absolutely fantastic. This guy explains exactly where, in what part of the world you need to get a virtual assistant, why you need to get a virtual assistant, how you actually go about employing this virtual assistant and he talks about the concept of just get them full-time, don’t get one project based, because it’s actually incredibly incredibly cheap to employ someone full-time. And, no, it’s not India guys, I know that Elance is a website where you can find many virtual assistants in India, but I really suggest you go and have a look at this website, we’ll leave the link in the show notes, and all of a sudden a whole load of work may be taken off you by employing someone who can do it for you just as well.

Luke: Now, before we get lots of emails from VAs in Australia…

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Luke: …we’re not necessarily suggesting that you have to outsource overseas. There’s plenty of VAs within your given country.

Tim: Yeah, there is. And in fact there’s some wonderful VAs in Australia, as I have been reminded on a number of occasions. But this is rollup the stuff…rollup the sleeves work, I should say, you know.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: You know, the virtual assistants, you know, locally for us I look to more for, you know, office, admin, kind of more stuff that I need maybe to talk to them…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …on a more regular basis.

Luke: Yeah. And understanding of the local culture.

Tim: Correct, Lukey.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: So we’ll go back to Dave and he’s going to keep sharing with us this gold around iPhone apps. So at some point you had to open your wallet?

David: Yeah, we did but, you know, there wasn’t a lot of money in the wallet but we were able to write our own press releases. And I heard one of your earlier podcasts when you were talking with a publicist…

Tim: Oh, yeah.

David: …on that, and I certainly related to that, it was a matter of writing…

Tim: That would be Podcast Number 4, Luke, with young Flip Shelton, for listeners who haven’t listened to it.

Luke: Yes, I think it was four.

Tim: It was. It was absolutely Number 4 and some good tips on…thank you for reminding us there, Dave.

David: Well one of the things she said, and it certainly resonated with us, what that you’ve got to find, if you’re writing a press release, it’s all very well to write it, but you’ve got to find what’s in it for the journalist that you…

Tim: Yep.

David: …think might take up your press release and print it or publicise it. And so what we basically did is targeted these press releases to all of the major cities in the US and composed a story around how that particular city ranked as a hair…in terms of hair days, you know…

Luke: Wow.

David: …whether New York was better than Los Angeles, that sort of thing.

Luke: That’s really cool.

David: And so we’re sending it to papers in Los Angeles, or radio stations in Los Angeles, we framed it in a playing LA off against New York type of way, as something for them, something that we knew they’d pick up on and obviously do the reverse, you know, in other cities and…

Tim: So this is not based on massive scientific data, but you’ve somehow established that New York is a better hair day in such and such a month than LA and then got it out there.

David: Well we actually found that New York is better overall, which was sort of surprising, because LA is where Hollywood is based and all the beautiful people and so it was a bit of a surprise to us and hopefully…

Luke: The most liveable city hair wise.

Tim: Yeah, that’s right. You wrote this…where did you send this press release, you sent it to every city in America to, what, to the local papers or?

David: Yeah, and again…

Tim: Daily papers?

David: I would love to have the contacts of, you know, and the secret email addresses and so forth which we didn’t have, so we were finding the best points of contact that we could and literally going for sheer numbers in the hope that, you know, at least 5% of them or whatever are effective and…

Tim: Did you get some take up?

David: Well if you…it’s a difficult thing to know. What we would do is we would try different tactics, whether it was Facebook advertising, blasting out some press releases or whatever and then the best feedback we get, keeping in mind we’re in Australia and this is in the US, the best feedback we could really get was the sales of the application in response to, you know, a particular effort that we’d done. And, you know, if you Google Haircaster now, you get a whole lot of mentions of it across a whole lot of blogs and so forth, but it’s very difficult to know for sure what actions came from any specific result…

Tim: So so far you’ve spent nights blogging and leaving comments, you have sent press releases out, the chequebook is still not out, the wallet is not open. Have you spent money promoting Haircaster and where?

David: Well the main place we’ve spent money is on Facebook. And that’s, you know, Facebook is something that I think most people are familiar with. The area of Facebook advertising is actually quite interesting in that for relatively small bucks you can target literally tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, of people. But I think the beauty is you can actually target it very narrowly. So you can go onto Facebook and choose women in New York City between the ages of 18 and 35 if you think that’s your target audience. And you can even narrow it down…

Tim: Good target audience.

David: Yeah.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Sorry.

David: But you could even narrow it down further to those that have iPhones.

Tim: Wow.

David: Or those that were…one of the strategies we tried was targeting women of that demographic who were…

Tim: With hair.

David: With hair. And who work for media organisations.

Tim: Wow.

David: So we could target people that worked at News Limited, for instance. And our hope there was that we’d hit some female editor who had an iPhone at News Limited who’d download our app and…

Tim: You know, one of the beauties of that strategy is there’s not a lot of wastage. You know, wastage as a concept within marketing, for those who don’t know what I’m talking about, is like you might run an ad in a paper of which 10% of the people who read that ad may be actually appropriate to buy your…suited to buying your product, but there’s actually 90% who are not.

David: Yep.

Tim: What you’re talking about is, I’m not sure if there’s any wastage. I mean, sure there might be people who aren’t interested in…who might not have an iPhone, I don’t know, but it sounds like you can even target down to that kind of demographic.

David: Well that thing about wastage is particularly important when you’re on a small budget.

Tim: Yep.

David: And, you know, we couldn’t afford to waste 90% of our money in a general press advertisement, probably couldn’t afford a press ad to start with and where do you run it. So we could…we could have blown our money very quickly that way. So we really had to focus on targeting our advertising and then doing everything we could to try and measure the affect of that which, as I say, is somewhat difficult, the sales were the best…the best indicator, we could see a bit of an upswing in the following few days.

Luke: Just want to have a quick chat about…

Tim: Isn’t he considered, Luke?

Luke: He sure is.

Tim: He’s a bit like you. He’s very considered.

Luke: Dave was just talking about how he’s found it difficult to measure, to basically measure his marketing activities and what he’s been doing. And that is essentially because he’s selling an iPhone app. iTunes doesn’t give you a lot of analytics to measure things by, i.e., you know, how many people are clicking through to the app from their iPhone or if they’re finding it online. But as a small business with a website, it is easy to measure most of your online marketing activities.

Tim: Yes.

Luke: And even offline marketing activities. For example, if you’ve got a website you should have Google Analytics installed.

Tim: Is that easy?

Luke: It’s easy for a web developer, it will take them ten minutes.

Tim: Right, okay.

Luke: So don’t let them…

Tim: So checklist, one, call your developer, get Google Analytics installed.

Luke: Google Analytics to start measuring your activity online. So if you’re doing, if you’re doing traditional…I probably shouldn’t call it traditional but if you’re doing…

Tim: Offline.

Luke: …offline advertising, make sure you include a unique web page to go to.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: So don’t just say www.SmallBusinessMarketing.com[sic], say www.SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com forward slash whatever the campaign is.

Tim: Yeah, give it a name and then you know that people…and that’s the only place that web address would appear.

Luke: Correct.

Tim: So that you know the traffic that’s coming to that page is coming from your ad.

Luke: That’s right.

Tim: Can I add something about advertising and it’s actually in the first chapter of my book, and I worked in advertising for ten years so I spent a lot of time there and I have a bit of a go at it. I think advertising as a small business marketing strategy is really dangerous, and this is what I rattle on about in Chapter 1 of Cha Ching!, which is my book. And it’s about the fact that there are so many variables involved in getting an ad right that it’s scary.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: And that’s why big businesses pay big money to big agencies to get it right. You know, things like, you know, size of the ad, position of the ad, the content of the ad, whether it’s black and white or colour, you know, how many times do you run it, do you run it once or do you run it 20. And, you know, the variables go on. So that’s a little bit kind of moving away from what you were talking about, Lukey, but it is very close to my heart because I see too many small business owners who talk about, oh, I’m running this ad, you know, and don’t know if it’s working, don’t know if it’s not, you know. A famous quote from an old advertising exec was…or an old advertising manager is 50% of my advertising is working, I just don’t know which 50%.

Luke: Which 50% it is, yeah.

Tim: Yeah. So, you know, yeah, I just think when I hear small business doing advertising, just alarm bells go off in my little brain.

Luke: Indeed. And one of the good tips that Dave has just given then is Facebook and how well he can actually target his audience.

Tim: Oh, yeah. How targeted was that?

Luke: It’s incredible. Facebook…the Facebook (29:27) advertising is incredible how closely you can target your demographic so.

Tim: Yeah. Yeah, I’m actually just working with a guy, I’ve just asked a fellow out of Sydney to put a proposal to me who specialises in Facebook and Facebook advertising campaigns because I see it as a nice little kind of additional offer that I can offer my clients. Because, you know, not many people know about it, you know.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: We know about Google AdWords, but less about Facebook advertising.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: And just last statistic, or a statistic, 6 million Facebook users in Australia.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: Active users. Active meaning they’ve been on it in the last three months. So that could be underestimated, hey.

Luke: It’s not necessarily for everyone.

Tim: No.

Luke: You’ve got to think about your audience and if that’s where your audience is, advertise there.

Tim: Back to big David Curry.

Luke: Advertising on Facebook, so you’d need a website, wouldn’t you, for people to click through to or can they go to some app page somewhere or…so did you have a web presence?

David: We have got one and I’m embarrassed to say it’s actually only half done.

Tim: Under construction.

David: I mean, it’s under construction and…

Tim: Having a blow dry.

Luke: So when someone clicks on a Facebook ad, where do they go?

David: Well actually what we had discovered before that, and probably it’s part of the reason why we haven’t completed our website, is that with iPhone applications, the best way to get them sold is simply to make people know it exists and most people know their own way of how you get an app onto your iPhone and it’s either you do it on your computer through iTunes or now you can download them directly to your iPhone. So we…again it was just a matter of doing whatever is going to be simplest and so we made a decision that if we just put it out there, I mean, there’s been over a billion iPhone apps downloaded…

Tim: Yeah, that’s amazing.

David: So clearly people don’t have a problem working out how to do it. The real challenge is making them know ours exists. So that was what we really focused on. And if you click on it it does take you…if you’re on your computer, it does take you to…opens up your iTunes and takes you up to the site, which is pretty standard.

Luke: Yep.

David: But I’m pretty sure in a lot of cases if you don’t have iTunes on that particular computer or you’re at work or whatever, it may not work. And I don’t think…it doesn’t seem that that’s what most people do. What they do is they…they know how to get an app on their iPhone, so really out task is just making them aware of it.

Luke: So it was basically a brand awareness campaign, yeah.

David: Totally.

Luke: Yeah.

David: Yeah, totally that’s what it was. We didn’t have to persuade…because we were targeting it so well, we knew it was something that our audience would be interested in, we didn’t really have to sell them on it, it was more just making them aware that it existed.

Tim: Dave, to wrap up, clearly we got you in to talk about this because it’s been a success and we like to talk to people who have done successful things with products and marketing, without kind of sharing all your secrets, success, how do you quantify the success, how many apps have you sold, can you tell us that?

David: Yeah. We’ve now sold over 100,000. Well actually I need to qualify that, which is part of…one of the lessons we learned, is that when…we discovered by accident…we were experimenting with the price, what price should this be and now, you know, people are familiar with iPhone apps know they’re very cheap, you know, and most of them I think are around the 99 cent mark.

Luke: Yep.

David: We went in high and in lowering our price, what we discovered is that every time you drop your price there are any number of blogs out there that automatically pick up on that and publicise the fact that application X has just dropped its price. So one of the tactics we used was to drop the price often to nothing, because going to zero seems to get the biggest reaction.

Tim: Yeah, funny that, a free beer.

David: And we’d do that for 24 hours and let the blogosphere latch onto that and spread the word and then jack the price back up, only to 99 cents so…

Tim: Yeah.

David: The other thing we were thinking there is that that also boosts or helps us with word of mouth, which is really what we’re trying to crack. We figured if we could get enough out there, you know, like 10,000 or whatever might be the critical number, then you’re going to have a natural sort of word of mouth, people showing others the application.

Luke: A bit of a tipping point.

David: So when I say over 100,000, thousands of those were free.

Tim: Yep, okay.

David: But initially success for us was getting our money back, which we did.

Tim: Yep.

David: And so now we’re looking at extending it to other countries. At the moment it only operates in the US and we’re looking at taking it to a manufacturer, a shampoo manufacturer or whoever might be interested.

Tim: Dave, we can only hope that every woman, 18 to 35 woman in the world, has a Haircaster app because…

David: Well I turn my…I mean, how many people are listening to this program, Tim?

Tim: Well we think…

David: If I can ask you that question?

Tim: Well you can, we think, look, at the last count it was in the hundreds of thousands. We’re thinking it might have, I don’t know, it could be millions but, look, we just don’t know and we don’t look because we just love doing it really.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Dave, thanks for coming in, mate.

David: Thank you.

Luke: Thanks very much, Dave.

Tim: Really good, mate, and a great story, a really good inspiring story.

Luke: Interesting story too.

David: Thanks for having me.

Tim: See you.

Luke: Cheers.

Tim: Lukey, what a ripper interview from Dave. There is absolute gold in them their shills.

Luke: A lot of good stuff in there.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: I actually enjoyed listening back to this one a lot.

Tim: Yeah, I did too.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: It’s interesting, you think when you do the interview you think, oh gee, you know, is that interesting to our listeners, but you go back and you go absolutely, I hope it is.

Luke: Yeah, some good…yeah, we hope so too.

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: We’ll be putting a few links in the show notes, so www.SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com, go to the interviews page.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: So if you want to see some of the links, they’ll be in…

Tim: Yeah, yeah. The great one about getting a VA, great one about Market Samurai where they find…

Luke: Research.

Tim: Do their research, all that type of stuff. So, yep. Now, listen, a question, Lukey, from James Tappendin…

Luke: Tappendin, from James, and that’s…this is in regards to whether he should have basically two Twitter accounts, one for personal and one for business. Tim, what are your thoughts on this?

Tim: I just think it’s a really simple one, I know there’s no right or wrong answer, my answer though is have a business account, and a personal account if you so chose. The business account is all about helping or providing information around your business, giving advice, trips and tricks, helping your followers with advice around what it is your business, product or service offers. Every now and then Tweet something personal in that business account to humanise it.

Luke: Yep.

Tim: And then have your personal account to do whatever you want to with.

Luke: Yeah, if you want to be hooking up with your mates on Twitter, yep, have a separate account for that and keep a business account separate.

Tim: Hey, James, thanks for your question. You can send your questions to questions@?

Luke: SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com.

Tim: And, listeners, thank you for listening, we know you’re coming from all around the world. We have been getting emails from, gee, the Netherlands, the States, the UK, Germany.

Luke: Yes.

Tim: Everywhere. It’s really good.

Luke: Yeah, it’s been great.

Tim: It kind of makes it all worthwhile, doesn’t it, Lukey?

Luke: We’ve got some…

Tim: Get a bit sad.

Luke: We’ve got some interesting podcasts coming up. We’ve got an online marketing consultant.

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

Luke: We’ve got…

Tim: And a real estate agent.

Luke: A real estate agent, yeah.

Tim: A really really interesting real estate agent story which…she’s broken all the rules and as a result has become very very successful. So that’s coming up. Thanks, listeners. May your news be good news.

Luke: And we’ll catch you next time.

Tim: Seeya.

Luke Harvey-Palmer, Founder of Buzzle, shares some absolute gold in respect to building your personal brand both online and off. Luke is a guy who spends every waking hour building the personal brands at the very top end of Australia’s business community, and he has kindly given us 30 minutes of his time to tell us how its done. Personal branding is an often overlooked part of a small business’s marketing mix, but this can all change if you take on board Luke’s sage and simple to implement advice. So, pens at the ready…and play!

Durration: 33:18

Luke Harvey-Palmer’s Business – www.Buzzle.com.au

Luke Harvey-Palmer’s Blog – www.LukeHarveyPalmer.com

Tim’s Brand Character Process

Tim on Twitter

Luke on Twitter

Check yourself out online – www.KnowEm.com

We’re also looking to create a product or service that will allow our listeners to work with us on their marketing. We’d love to hear from you as to what form this would take. So, leave a voicemail on Skype at SmallBusinessBigMarketing or email us at questions@smallbusinessbigmarketing.com

Thanks for listening!

Podcast Transcription

Tim Reid: Lukey, Lukey, Lukey. I got a bit of heat last time for…I think that’s how I introduced you last time, is that right?
Luke Moulton: I think it is actually, yeah.

Tim Reid: Yeah. Got a bit of heat in the kitchen from that one.

Luke Moulton: Did you really?

Tim Reid: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Luke Moulton: Timbo, how are you?

Tim Reid: Couldn’t be finer, mate, yourself?

Luke Moulton: Yes, very well thank you.

Tim Reid: You are looking radiant.

Luke Moulton: As…

Tim Reid: In that dress.

Luke Moulton: As are you in that moo moo you always wear.

Tim Reid: Great. Hey, we’ve got a ripper interview; we are going to get straight into it. Just to confuse you, listeners, and hello to you wherever you are in the world, we’ve got another Luke on the end of the line.

Luke Moulton: Yes, we’re speaking with Luke Harvey-Palmer from Buzzle and what does Luke do, Tim?

Tim Reid: Luke, he is…he’s a personal branding expert. And there’s just some real gold in this upcoming interview. And I would suggest, listeners, that…get a pen and paper out.

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: And pause, stop, rewind, do whatever you need to, but there really is some good stuff. And personal branding, I think as we say at the end, you know, can often be overlooked as a marketing strategy for your business. I think overlook it at one’s peril, Luke.

Luke Moulton: Indeed. So don’t sit back and relax.

Tim Reid: That’s it, yeah, yeah. And only listen to this if you’re serious.

Luke Moulton: Yeah. Sit up and take notes and over to Luke.

Tim Reid: Correct.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: This is Luke.

Tim Reid: Is that Luke Harvey-Palmer?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: This is Luke Harvey-Palmer.

Tim Reid: There’s only one, isn’t there?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Yes, look, the…Google me and you’ll see there is only one.

Tim Reid: Correct, correct. So you would be a specialist in what?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: That would be personal brand campaign management.

Tim Reid: Lovely, Luke. So, mate, it’s clearly Tim and also another Luke who…

Luke Moulton: How are you, Luke, how are you going?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Luke, this could be very confusing, couldn’t it?

Tim Reid: Correct.

Luke Moulton: It certainly could.

Tim Reid: Correct.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Luke one and Luke two, although I notice that Tim calls you Lukey a lot.

Tim Reid: All right, well we’ll go with that. My sidekick here will be Lukey for the next 15 minutes and you’ll be Luke. So, Luke, personal branding, mate, that’s interesting that you should say look you up online and you’ll be up the top. What’s personal branding about, surely it’s more than sort of being found online, what’s your definition?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Mmm, very much so. Look, in its simplest form, Tim, and Luke, personal branding is…and your personal brand, is what people think of when they think of you. Now, one of the things I like to talk about to explain that often is in simple terms if people are having a conversation at midnight over a red wine and they’re talking about you, what are the things that they’re saying. Those things that they’re saying, that’s your personal brand.

Luke Moulton: Is that to your face or behind your back?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Look, either or.

Tim Reid: Just what they’re thinking.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Yeah, look, it’s just what, you know, what they’re thinking, hence the red wine, Luke. People tend to be pretty honest there once they’ve had a few drinks after midnight. But, look, either or, and typically there’s something to learn from that regardless, if that’s what people think of you then that in many ways, they are the attributes of your brand. And so like most good organisations…

Tim Reid: How do you…what’s a brand, we’ve had this conversation before, but how would you define a brand? Because it’s a pretty…it’s a heavily used word in marketing circles.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, Tim, you’ve got some great background in this space as well and when I’m asked that question I like to talk about brand and break it down to the bottom line. In many ways we talk about personal branding and the work we do with people, we say to them this, that a brand is really about increasing your value. And why are we able to do that? Well a brand is about the emotion. It’s about the emotive elements of marketing, it’s about the emotive elements of selling and promotion whereby if, as I said before, people think of your brand, it’s those words they think of, it’s the feelings, it’s the things they feel in their heart as much as in their head.

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And so it’s still a bit…

Tim Reid: More so.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Sorry?

Tim Reid: More so. More so in their heart than their head.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Very much so. And we talk a lot about engaging brands and how do you have an engaging personal brand so that people take an interest in that brand, they want to know more, they’re inquisitive, or they want to be part of that.

Tim Reid: Lukey, if ever ever the brakes were deserved, this is the moment, because you know how emotional I get about branding, don’t you?

Luke Moulton: Yes, you are…you’re always very particular about branding.

Tim Reid: Well, you know, this is what I reckon; I reckon it’s a very overlooked part of businesses and in particular small businesses marketing. Because they go, oh, it’s sort of airy fairy stuff, I don’t really get it, and as a result they kind of just go launch straight into doing the ad or doing the website or doing the logo or whatever without really thinking about what it is they stand for and how they’re going to emotionally connect to their audience.

Luke Moulton: So how should they actually go about…

Tim Reid: Excellent question.

Luke Moulton: About finding out what their brand is?

Tim Reid: It’s an excellent question. Well let’s go back. So Luke had some great definitions around brand, my favourite definition, and I think we talked about it when we interviewed Michael Klim a few episodes ago, is that a brand is simply an emotional attachment, right.

Luke Moulton: Mmm.

Tim Reid: So you need to get, you the business owner, need to get your prospects and your customers emotionally connected to your brand, to your business. Because if they’re emotionally connected, it’s much harder for them to leave and it’s much easier for them to make a transaction. So how do you do that? Well I reckon the question that you’ve got to ask yourself is what problem am I solving for my customers. And if you can demonstrate that you’re solving a particular problem for your customers, your customers are going to, by default, go these guys really get me. You know?

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: Like they’ll get all teary and they’ll love you, like we do about Apple, you know.

Luke Moulton: Yes, correct.

Tim Reid: But, you know, Apple is a great example, I mean, Apple could…Apple could whip me in a public square and I’d go thank you. You know?

Luke Moulton: Yeah.

Tim Reid: But that’s the power of a brand.

Luke Moulton: Indeed. Especially if it’s Steve Jobs.

Tim Reid: Well, yeah, you know, anyone. Anyone who…

Luke Moulton: Anyone from Apple.

Tim Reid: Yeah, anyone who had an Apple business card and…but anyway we won’t go there. But, you know, that’s the power of a brand and I often say to clients if you don’t believe in the power of a brand, then just personalise it. Think about the clothes you buy, the car you drive, you know, the shopping powder you buy…the shopping powder. What was I saying there? The washing powder…

Luke Moulton: Washing powder.

Tim Reid: …that you buy in the shop.

Luke Moulton: Yes.

Tim Reid: But, you know, like think about those things and why you buy them. Ask yourself why do I buy them and there’ll be an emotional reason.

Luke Moulton: Should your small business brand be about what you want to be as a business or should it be a reflection of your personality?

Tim Reid: Reflection of your personality, I reckon.

Luke Moulton: Yeah.

Tim Reid: Sometimes that’s hard and in fact it’s a very very good question, Luke, because…I think I’m about to tell a story in the next part of this show.

Luke Moulton: Yes.

Tim Reid: But it is, it should be, you know, it’s hard when a number of people who own the business.

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: When it’s a one person show, it’s easier, but…

Luke Moulton: And just on that point though, Tim, you’re…not to bang on about Twitter, but your Twitter ID has been Timbo Reid, so why do you want to change that to The Ideas Guy, which is your business name?

Tim Reid: And who said I was going to do that?

Luke Moulton: Well we had a bit of a chat before the show and…

Tim Reid: Yeah, we did. We’ll talk about it later.

Luke Moulton: All right.

Tim Reid: Back to…back to Luke.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Your brand really is about all those things that, you know, conjure up those emotions around…

Tim Reid: So, Luke, this is interesting, only recently, last week, I had this wonderful client of mine who, she’s quite eccentric, right, eccentric, eccentric, however, one says that, but she’s mad and her personal brand, if she honours it, is so beautifully strong and unique and has qualities and values that I don’t know another brand in business that has similar kind of values and personality. So I sit with her and say fill out…I was going to use her name then, but I won’t, fill out your brand character form which is my way of identifying people’s brands, yeah. And she gets her team involved and it comes back, the way she describes her brand becomes very formulaic and very corporate and everything that she’s not. And I sent her an email and I said, don’t share this with your team, but this is your team talking trying to describe a business and it doesn’t reflect who you are at all, because you’re this beautifully unique person. And she said, “I wanted everyone to get buy in”, but all of a sudden she gets this clinical style brand. So what’s my question there, it’s like how much of the business owner should influence the brand that a business is trying to create.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Look, amazing, we live in really amazing times. You know, we’ve…just recently I’ve been doing some keynotes and have written quite a few blog posts on this whole notion of where are we now, and I know, Tim, you and I have probably had a conversation about this offline, you know, what is the 21st century now, what is post GFC, post the global financial crisis, what really is happening to markets and to businesses and to consumers, to customers.

And so it’s totally related to I guess that question, Tim, in that people I guess expect different things now and one of the blog posts I wrote today was about trying to get this whole notion going of a father and son day. And I feel like my generation, you know, X generation, we’ve got a real disconnect with our parents, and in most cases they’re baby boomers, because so many things were expected of them or so many of the values they grew up with which is go to university, get a (9:43), get a job, work to 65, retire and die.

Luke Moulton: Yeah.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And so I think a lot of businesses, a lot of corporations, still think in many ways we’ve got that hanging over our heads, we’ve still got that sort of baby boomer. And Barack Obama uses a term, post boomer, and a I think a lot of business is struggling, Tim, with this notion of letting go of these things that were heavily related to corporate brand and what a corporation must be, it must be serious, it must be understood, it must be clear, it must be black and white, and we’re just starting to get comfortable with having our personalities, what I call the fifth P, and there’s four Ps to marketing and I won’t bore your listeners with that…

Tim Reid: Give it a go, mate, see if they’re the same ones I know.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Look, let’s see, let’s…you know, I’ll make these up, but the four Ps of marketing as most of us with any sort of academic training understand marketing to be all around product, price, placement and promotion.

Tim Reid: Lovely.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And so the fifth P we like to think…those things are great but, you know, I can go to China now and get a product ripped up.

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: I can be on the Internet and be in Mongolia selling product. So the only way really to differentiate now and to have your business really stand out is…

Tim Reid: Ah.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: …is through the fifth P, through your people.

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And to answer your question, to bring that right back, I think a lot of people…and, look, I’m not going to hazard a guess at your client, your contacts, as to, you know, their age group and, you know, people in the business, but we just…we need to learn to let go a little bit and need to recognise that people buy people.

Tim Reid: Yep, nice.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And that people…yeah, they really want to feel the personality in your business. And if you are the business leader, look at many great businesses, you know, Branson what he’s done with Virgin and Serge and Larry with Google.

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And Jobs with Apple. People get a bit nervous…

Tim Reid: Hey, speaking of Virgin, I did interview the head of people at Virgin a few years ago…

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Yeah.

Tim Reid: …and the great quote that he left me with was, “People can copy what we do but not who we are”. You know, and that’s what it’s all about. Is that the kind of bottom line?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: That is, that’s the bottom line. And I think for your question again, bring it back to the question, the person you were talking to is…it is very much about just getting comfortable with that, I think we know it, intrinsically we know it.

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: But we’ve just had it so heavily ingrained in us that that’s not what business is about, it’s not personal. I think we’ve changed.

Tim Reid: It is, yeah.

Luke Moulton: So, Luke, when you work on someone’s personal brand, what are you actually working on?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: We believe there’s…there’s probably…I like to talk about the three As, Luke, or should I call you Lukey.

Tim Reid: Hang on, I’m just writing down the five Ps. We’ve got the three As. And make an allowance for the four Ds.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Being a marketer and a strategic marketer…

Tim Reid: Yeah.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And, you know, having a background with some pretty clever sort of consulting types…

Tim Reid: Yeah.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: You know, Tim, that models, the rules of three, four…

Tim Reid: Correct.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: They’re everywhere.

Tim Reid: Analogies, stories, acronyms, bring them on.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Yep, look I love them…

Tim Reid: What have you got, the three…what was it, the three As?

Luke Moulton: The three As.

Tim Reid: Okay.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: They help me remember.

Tim Reid: Okay.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: They help me remember otherwise I’d never be able to remember this stuff. But to answer your question, Lukey, the three As are really about availability, affability and ability. So what we’re really working on there, availability is just that how do I find you. You know, if I have to try and find you and try and transact with your brand and who you are and what you stand for, how available are you.

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: You know, if I Google you do I find you and if I find you what do I find about you. Is it clear, does it say exactly what you do, does it contain your promise. And can I learn a bit about your personality and what really makes you tick, that’s your availability.

Tim Reid: Lukey.

Luke Moulton: Timmy.

Tim Reid: This is a big one because…they’re all big, aren’t they, every time we stop. That’s probably why we stop.

Luke Moulton: That is why we stop.

Tim Reid: Yeah, correct. But…

Luke Moulton: Reinforce the point.

Tim Reid: That’s it, that’s it. And, gosh, availability, you know, I am amazed at the amount of times, even just simplistically like you go to a website and you’re trying to find the contact details of someone and…

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: Yeah, like they’re not there.

Luke Moulton: Yeah.

Tim Reid: And what really annoys me, if they’re not there but there’s a form, you know, like an email form to fill out.

Luke Moulton: Yeah, yep.

Tim Reid: And you go is this really…is this going to go into the big black hole.

Luke Moulton: Yep. I was actually trying to contact an advertising agency recently and I went to their…I went into their people section to find out, you know, who the movers and shakers were within the business and I…I did a search on a couple of the people higher up and I couldn’t find anything on them.

Tim Reid: Amazing, amazing.

Luke Moulton: And they’re in the advertising agency.

Tim Reid: Businesses are people, listeners. You know that, that’s why you’re our listeners, you’re smart. But tell all the other people that aren’t listening that businesses are people. But, you know, the other thing too is availability. Like, guys, there’s a fellow Iggy Pintado and we interviewed Iggy, we Iggy-fied Iggy, a few weeks ago. He’s the…he is the connection expert.

Luke Moulton: Yes.

Tim Reid: Iggy kindly did for me last week a social media audit of my brand.

Luke Moulton: Right. And what did that entail?

Tim Reid: He just looked at my presence online and was it consistent, was it ubiquitous, was it limited, was it, you know, how was I looking online, and he came back and he said, you know, basically, you know…and this is all about connection, connectedness and availability, it comes back to being available, and he said, you know, you’re strong on Twitter, your website’s good, I like your blog, you know, you’ve obviously got the podcast, but here’s the gaps, you know. And then…

Luke Moulton: What were the gaps?

Tim Reid: He said there’s no video of you. There is…you are not on YouTube. As a marketing person you should be on YouTube and I said you’re absolutely right. So I’m now doing…I now Tweet each morning, I ask him for a marketing question and I post…I do…I answer that question to video, it’s normally a two to three minute answer and I post it on YouTube. And you can check that out, guys, at…my YouTube ID is The Ideas Guy and then the letters TIG. And it’s just, you know, like that builds your brand. And, you know, if you do…Iggy’s amazing, I mean, you key in Iggy Pintado into Google and, boy is he available.

Luke Moulton: It’s about the first 30 pages.

Tim Reid: Yeah, yeah. As we said at the time, there’s not a lot of Iggy Pintados in the world…

Luke Moulton: No.

Tim Reid: So he’s been blessed with a name. But, yeah, so I guess the question…

Luke Moulton: Could say he’s dominating his niche.

Tim Reid: He is. He is the niche. You know, the question is, listeners, that…how available are you and should you be more available and you’ll probably find the answer is I could be more available and what are you going to do about it.

Luke Moulton: Yep. And I think, Luke, give some tips later on in this podcast, so stay tuned.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Your affability is really your likeability, how much…how likeable are you. And there’s a set of behaviours around that, it’s the simple stuff, Lukey, like just listening, you know, just listening in conversations.

Tim Reid: Is this about everyone loving you?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: We use the term making great people popular. So love, respect, you know, Tim, I’m all for hugs, I love a hug and love a backslap.

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: But popular, without taking it too far, is just simply about people wanting to talk about you, people wanting what you’ve got, people wanting to buy what it is you’re selling.

Tim Reid: I don’t think I’ve ever hugged you. Have I hugged you?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Uh, probably not. We’ve probably done…

Tim Reid: We’ll take it off air.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: I think…yeah.

Luke Moulton: You two spent some time together…

Tim Reid: We did.

Luke Moulton: …not too long ago.

Tim Reid: We did.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Yep.

Luke Moulton: Surely there was a few hugs then.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: There would have been.

Tim Reid: Yeah, yeah. Righto. Okay, so you’ve got your…what was the last one, the?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Ability.

Tim Reid: Ability.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Ability.

Tim Reid: Yeah, okay.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: It’s pretty simple.

Luke Moulton: So you’ve got to walk the talk, is that essentially what it means?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: You’ve just got to be good. Yeah, exactly. If you’re selling something, you’ve just got to be able to do what you say you’re selling. You know, whatever it is that you stand for, whatever it is that you are selling, you’ve just got to make sure you can do it and that’s about testimonials, it’s about credibility, it’s about having a background, it’s about having the right ticks in the box, we’ve all got a degree, you know, we’ve all got some sort of education these days and so that’s the ability piece.

Tim Reid: I don’t know if we’ve all got a degree. But, hey, Luke, bringing this back to small, medium business owners who have…these are the people listening to our podcast who have a need to get their message out into the marketplace, I just want to…how does this apply directly to the owner of a business that’s got to do that? You know, we’ve just had a guy in here who…his whole responsibility is to, you know, get the message out around his product.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Yeah, yep.

Tim Reid: Is it about…and Luke and I were having this conversation before, is it about, yeah, you’ve got a product or a service to promote but surely before that and first and foremost you’ve got yourself?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Yeah. Look, a great set of research came out about two or three months ago now on trust, you know, and the fact that 87% of Australians, and this is not a statistic made up on the spot, but 87% of Australians wouldn’t buy from a corporation they don’t trust. So how do you get trust, how do you get people to trust what it is you’re trying to sell? And for us that’s really easy, it’s all about trusting the people, and it’s all about connecting with the people, the stuff we said before. So I think the message, the very first thing, you know, is we don’t get too hung up on social media, we don’t get too hung upon the Internet and the web, but I was saying to someone tonight that, you know, Google knows all, Yahoo, whatever search engine, you know, it knows all. So a good place to start for a lot of business owners is if they just simply type their name into Google, start there, see what comes up. And they’ll be surprised. I find a lot of things about people, you find that they love cycling or they love long distance running, they love horse riding, those things are important, they’re vital, that’s often how people decide whether or not they’re going to do business with you. I think for every business owner they need to be conscious of that. They need to recognise that this is not about technology, this is not about bloody Google and search engines, this is about just being found and what is it that people are finding when they do go looking for you. That’s…I think for any business owner that’s absolutely vital. Because it can be quite a surprise for some people. They can be brand-less, i.e. they don’t find anything, or they find a mishmash of things that are quite confusing. And for a lot of business owners, that’s probably a good place to start for that reason, Tim. You know, a lot of business owners are actually not clear exactly what it is they do and what they’re selling.

Tim Reid: I had a really interesting experience, and I’m not sure how this girl can alter this, but I was in the offices of a large corporation today, I was introduced to someone, I then went back to my client’s office and he said, come on, I’ll show you something. And he pulled up on Google a fairly incriminating article from a newspaper about this person I’d just met. So I’ve gone from meeting a person who seemed very affable and friendly, to then going and reading a newspaper article within a minute on Google that showed that this person had been involved in something, you know, not very nice.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Mmm, mmm.

Tim Reid: Now, you can’t go and delete that from Google, so how do you manage that as part of your personal brand?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Look, this is…that’s a great question. This comes back to that affability, you know, and that likeability, and the fact that you felt probably your stomach tighten, Tim.

Tim Reid: Mmm.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: You know, you read that article and you saw what was written there and your first instincts, we all do, I mean, an animal, we’re pretty simple as human beings…

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: We’re animals, it’s all about fight and flight, do I stay or do I run.

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And your first instinct is, ooh, this doesn’t sound good, I don’t want to get to know this person. And we actually work with a lot of clients on this basis. I guess you could call it a little bit of reputation management.

Luke Moulton: All right, we’re just going to pause Luke there and talk quickly a little bit about reputation management and what you can do to manage your reputation online.

Tim Reid: My reputation?

Luke Moulton: Your reputation.

Tim Reid: Why are you going to talk about my reputation?

Luke Moulton: Because you really need to manage your reputation.

Tim Reid: Yeah, I do, don’t I.

Luke Moulton: Yeah.

Tim Reid: I do, I do. No, you mean just generally managing…

Luke Moulton: Generally.

Tim Reid: …one’s reputation.

Luke Moulton: As a small business person and for your personal brand and for your business brand. Probably five sites you should make sure that your profile is updated on. One…

Tim Reid: Should our listeners get a pen?

Luke Moulton: They should. Firstly, your business website. Make sure your name is on it and you’ve got a bit of a profile about yourself. LinkedIn is a good one.

Tim Reid: Excellent.

Luke Moulton: Facebook. Get yourself a Facebook page.

Tim Reid: Really?

Luke Moulton: Yeah.

Tim Reid: Like, just like that…

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: You reckon go and get a Facebook page?

Luke Moulton: Yeah. Yeah, I think…I think…

Tim Reid: Really?

Luke Moulton: Even if you don’t keep it up to date, at least register…

Tim Reid: Yeah.

Luke Moulton: Register your profile.

Tim Reid: Yeah, true, true.

Luke Moulton: YouTube, once again if you don’t want…if you can’t be bothered doing a video, at least register your profile. And Twitter, as we spoke about before in regards to Tim and his business name, make sure that your business name is registered as your Twitter ID, even if you don’t use it.

Tim Reid: One of the things…I’ll answer that question now about Twitter, do you want me to do that?

Luke Moulton: Yeah, please.

Tim Reid: So like the idea was that if I had of known…if I had of had a complete understanding of the whole online social media scene when I started, what I would have gone and done is registered the same ID on every network.

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: So my Twitter ID would equal my LinkedIn ID would equal my YouTube ID would equal my Facebook, blah, blah, blah. But I didn’t. And some of that was (a) just being very naughty boy, but the other part of it was that I think actually some of them just weren’t available. Like I couldn’t get The Ideas Guy, which is my business…

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: …I couldn’t get that on every social medium.

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: And I didn’t sort of have, like I just took what I could get, you know?

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: And in retrospect I’d like to go back and change it but still I wouldn’t have a completely clean slate because some of the time it’s just not available.

Luke Moulton: That’s right. Listeners, there is a great service out there, there’s a website called knowem.com, so k-n-o-w-e-m.com, we’ll put it in the show notes, but they can actually check around about 120 social media sites to see if your profile has been registered and they do actually provide a service where you can either go and manually register all your profiles yourself or for US$64.95 they can register all those for you. So check it out, knowem.com, it’s a pretty cool service.

Tim Reid: Cool. Back to Luke.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And the quick story I love, I don’t want to bore you with stories, but the quick story that I love is the story where someone, a friend of mine, was asked to define the tall poppy syndrome, some years ago, the Aussie great tall poppy syndrome, and what they really said was look, we don’t believe it really exists. We believe that if you achieve your fame and you achieve great things and achieving your standing through looking beyond your own world, in other words, not being focused on yourself and your own ego and your own gain, but focus on the community and humanity, the broader humanity.

Tim Reid: Right.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: If you can link your achievement to that, then tall poppy syndrome doesn’t exist. Australians will love you; Australians will support you and actually congratulate you on your success. And I think for business owners, executives, it’s very important to realise that and it’s very important to look back at their achievements and look forward as well and think, okay, what are some of the things I can do that are going to demonstrate to my target audience, to the consumers, to people reading Google, that actually I’m not so bad, because there’s lots of things I’m doing that are helping my organisation, that are helping my community, that are helping humanity. And so we’ve been able to turn around some pretty interesting situations with people where, yes, they’ve got a black mark, supposed black mark against their name, but it gets overshadowed because we get them out there doing great things, we get them out there aligning themselves with the charities they believe in. You know, we work out what are their brand qualities and we align those brand qualities with worthwhile charities and worthwhile causes.

Tim Reid: Yeah.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: You know, giving a bit back and…

Tim Reid: Okay. So being action oriented, not dwelling on the past, but actually…I have a saying, don’t tell me you’re funny, tell me a joke. So it’s like, you know, walk the talk.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Mmm.

Tim Reid: Yeah/

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Very much.

Luke Moulton: Luke, is it also a little bit about taking up I guess more of that search engine real estate in terms of bumping off the bad stuff and filling it up with good stuff?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Mmm. Look, again this is a space, not being a search engine optimisation expert myself, I look at it pretty simply and I say this, I say to people I talk to that will Google, let’s not get wrapped around the axles. The guys who created Google as a search engine just tried to create something that works like the human mind. So, in other words, the human mind is inquisitive in what everyone else is inquisitive about. So if you’re inquisitive about widgets, then we’re all inquisitive, you know, if everyone is inquisitive about widgets, I’m going to be inquisitive about widgets. If it’s good stuff and people are talking about it a lot then there’s a fair chance I’m going to hear about it and I’m going to want to know about it as well. And so, Luke, Google very much, and the way I explain it to people, is don’t bullshit, do shit. And at the end of the day if you’re out there doing great things, then that will far outweigh the bad things that you may have done or someone may have assumed you’ve done.

Tim Reid: Yeah.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And by default people are going to be interested in that, people are going to be talking about that and in layman’s terms, Google is then going to find those things, those things are going to turn up. And that’s how we like to explain it; I know it’s a lot more complex than that.

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: Luke, I know you’ve got a keynote to get to, but I want to ask you for our listeners who love a bit of practical advice, and that’s what our show’s about, wake up in the morning, they’re now inspired to go and improve or develop their personal brand, what is Luke Harvey-Palmer’s top five?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Yep, good, so simple. First things first, own your domain, own your real estate, register your name.

Tim Reid: Okay.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Tim Reid, TimboReid.com, .com.au, whatever is available. LukeMoulton.com, go and register it now.

Tim Reid: Right, one.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Twenty four dollars, two years, done. The next thing is your really need to be in three places. You need to be registered online on something like Twitter. You need to be registered on something like Facebook and you really need to be registered on LinkedIn…

Tim Reid: Mate, you said before it’s not about being online.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Well this is the start, this is the start.

Tim Reid: Okay. Three?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: You need to have those things, you need to quickly get out there and register those things. The very…the next to last thing which is very very important before your final step is you need to be clear on your promise, what is it you do, what is it you’re selling.

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: When you’re asked the question what do you do, you need to be able to answer that in five seconds.

Tim Reid: What do you do?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: I make great people popular.

Tim Reid: Beautiful. Number four?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And, you know, the next thing then is once you understand that I really encourage people to start to either…to look at ways, this is a little bit open, but look at ways at which you can bring that brand to light, whether it be writing a book, whether it be doing some public speaking, whether it be changing your business cards, whether it be writing a blog.

Tim Reid: These are very extroverted things to do.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Yes, yep.

Tim Reid: So do you have to be an extrovert to be…to have a good personal brand?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Not at all.

Tim Reid: Righto.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Yeah, I mean, not at all. In fact some of the greatest personal brands of our time are in fact in many ways introverts.

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: I mean, some would argue…I would argue that Bill Gates is not a natural extrovert.

Tim Reid: Yeah, okay.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: But just through achievement, just through being able to get things done, through his ability, coming back to those three As, you know, he’s got a very strong personal brand. People are clear what Bill Gates does. So, no, look, those things, they are, they sound like marketing, they sound like self promotion, but you’ll find if you can just define what it is you do, Tim, be clear on what it is you do.

Tim Reid: Yeah, yeah, totally.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: There are so many ways…

Tim Reid: Totally.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: …in today’s world to get…

Tim Reid: Mate, I know. I mean, incredibly powerful to have that five second defining what do you do, answer to what you do is powerful. Number five, mate?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Well number five for me was really the whole piece, number four was…the big three, number four was work out what it is that you do and number five is then find a way to really communicate what it is that you do, whether it be online or offline. You know, get out there and tell people about what it is that you do.

Tim Reid: Yeah. Mate, that’s pretty practical stuff, Lukey, isn’t it?

Luke Moulton: It sure is.

Tim Reid: Okay.

Luke Moulton: Good stuff.

Tim Reid: Lukey, thank you…well Luke Harvey-Palmer in this case, on the other end of the line, thanks, mate. Good luck with your talk tonight.

Luke Moulton: Thanks a lot, Luke.

Tim Reid: And thanks a million for spending some time with us. Website to visit?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Is w…

Tim Reid: Or blog?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Yeah, www.Buzzle.com.au, Buzzle, which is my business.

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Or my blog, ramblings on all things branding is www.lukeharveypalmer.com.

Tim Reid: Lovely. Hey, and one last thing, you shared a wonderful piece of practical advice, how does your voicemail go or when you answer your phone?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: When I answer my phone I always say, good afternoon or good morning, this is Luke.

Tim Reid: And what’s the thinking behind it?

Luke Harvey-Palmer: The thinking with that is that often people don’t hear the first five or six words that you say. When people ring you they just don’t hear what you’re saying for the first three…two, three, four seconds.

Tim Reid: Right.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And so by saying your name last, by saying good morning, this is Luke, the last thing they hear is your name.

Tim Reid: Lovely.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: And they’re absolutely clear who they’re talking to and for anyone, you know, this is Luke, how can I help you, whatever way. The most important thing is what you finish with when you answer your phone and that’s why.

Luke Moulton: Good tip.

Tim Reid: Lovely, Luke.

Luke Moulton: Great tip.

Tim Reid: Thanks, mate.

Luke Moulton: Thanks for talking to us, Luke.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: Not a problem, thanks for having me.

Luke Moulton: Cheers.

Tim Reid: Cheers, bye.

Luke Harvey-Palmer: All the best, guys, keep it up.

Tim Reid: Bye. Lukey, what a…what a great interview.

Luke Moulton: It was, Timbo. There was a lot in that one, wasn’t there?

Tim Reid: Mate, it was chockers, as we say in the lucky country. It was full of marketing, and in Luke’s case, branding goodness.

Luke Moulton: Yes, Luke Harvey-Palmer certainly knows how to do personal branding.

Tim Reid: You know, there was so much stuff that I think personally small business owners we kind of look over, you know, we kind of get so stuck into getting all the marketing done, that the idea of building and addressing your personal brand is often neglected. So hopefully there’s lots of goodness in there to…

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: …go and implement. Lukey, I’m going to get a little bit spiritual on you.

Luke Moulton: You’re going to wax spiritual.

Tim Reid: Yeah, I’m going to wax spiritual. Very clever, very clever. But I…I got this sense as Luke was talking about this old Mahatma Ghandi saying of be the change you want to see.

Luke Moulton: Yes.

Tim Reid: And I just like that idea of, you know, as business owners and as marketers, we do need to kind of walk the talk, you know.

Luke Moulton: Yeah.

Tim Reid: And in addressing your personal brand and all the things that make up it, make it up.

Luke Moulton: Yes.

Tim Reid: Make up it…

Luke Moulton: Make it up.

Tim Reid: Thank you. Then you’re going to set yourself in a really good position to be harder to compete with, you know, I really feel that if you do the work on your personal brand and your business brand, you’re going to be less desirable to compete with and…

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: Nice place to be really.

Luke Moulton: So how do you find those gaps in the market, do you look at your industry and say well what’s missing or do you ask your customers?

Tim Reid: Listen to the podcast.

Luke Moulton: Yeah, that’s a good start.

Tim Reid: Listen to the show we just did. What we’re going to do…so thanks, Luke, and…that was Luke Harvey-Palmer.

Luke Moulton: Indeed.

Tim Reid: Now over to Lukey here in the studio is what we want to do, listeners, is develop…we get a lot of emails from listeners saying, you know, what services do you guys offer, how can we work with you, how can we kind of help develop…how can we help you develop your marketing and branding. And what we want to do is ask our listeners, that’s you, to tell us the kind of issues and problems that you’d like solved.

Luke Moulton: Yeah. Yeah, how can we help you?

Tim Reid: Yeah.

Luke Moulton: Yeah. So you can leave a Skype message to at Small Business Big Marketing on Skype if you want to Skype us and just leave a voice message, or drop us an email questions@SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com.

Tim Reid: So just so we’re really clear, listeners, we want to develop a product or a service that will allow you guys to utilise our services, on a very limited basis, you know, we won’t open it up to everyone, but it will be a kind of exclusive little offer…

Luke Moulton: Yeah.

Tim Reid: …that we’ll make in upcoming shows, that’s going to help our listeners, you, address your marketing and branding.

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: So Small Business Big Marketing ID on Skype or email us at…

Luke Moulton: Questions@SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com.

Tim Reid: Great. And, Luke?

Luke Moulton: Tim?

Tim Reid: Do you know who we’ve got next episode or is that a secret?

Luke Moulton: Ooh, no, we’ve got…we’ve got a good one coming up, we’ve got…

Tim Reid: We did say in a previous episode about an iPhone applications…

Luke Moulton: Yep.

Tim Reid: …kind of expert.

Luke Moulton: That’s definitely doing to be in our next podcast.

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Moulton: We’re talking to David Curry…

Tim Reid: Yep.

Luke Moulton: …who actually created his own iPhone app. And he tells us how to find a niche in the iPhone app market and then how to market it.

Tim Reid: Yeah.

Luke Moulton: So it’s a really interesting one.

Tim Reid: It is. And then there’s a few other good ones in the can.

Luke Moulton: In the can indeed.

Tim Reid: As they say.

Luke Moulton: So join us next time. We look forward to speaking with you then.

Tim Reid: That’s it. See you, guys. Bye.

Luke Moulton: Bye.

Martyn Thomas, Founder of Frank Media, a media planning and buying agency shares with us what it means to build a community around your business and how it can have a hugely positive impact on your bottom-line. You’ll also discover what it means to create a ‘tuned-in’ product or service and how to go about it. Oh, and we announce the winners of the personalised copies of Iggy Pintado’s book The Connection Generation…and (yes, there’s more) share with you the iPhone apps that make it all worthwhile. So, put your feet up, turn the phone off and get ready for a does of marketing goodness.

Durration: 34:10

Show Links

Frank Media

Tuned In (the Book) Tuned In: Uncover the Extraordinary Opportunities That Lead to Business Breakthroughs

Tuned In (TKindle Edition) Tuned In: Uncover the Extraordinary Opportunities That Lead to Business Breakthroughs

MeetUp

How to find what people are asking for.

Podcast Transcription

Tim: Lukey, Lukey, Lukey. Welcome back, mate, Episode 8, Small Business Big Marketing.

Luke: Welcome back, Timbo.

Tim: How are you?

Luke: I’m very well, thanks, mate. Yourself?

Tim: Thank you, couldn’t be finer, could not be finer. And what about…our last show, listeners, if we are sounding excited is because on our last show we interviewed, if you haven’t listened to it, the connection expert Iggy Pintado, who’s written a book, and he’s probably one of the more connected people in Australia in terms of online social media type stuff.

Luke: Certainly the traffic that we received to our website post launch of that podcast shows that he is extremely connected.

Tim: Yes. Yes, and in fact we had a couple of warning emails from our host saying what are you doing.

Luke: You’re using up too much bandwidth.

Tim: Yeah. Which is a good problem to have, it’s a bit like tax.

Luke: Sure is.

Tim: It’s like, um, but you know really interesting lesson there, yeah, we had a lot of traffic guys which is great and clearly our listener base is growing but the really interesting lesson there is that that show became quite viral and I just watched in on Twitter where Iggy would tweet out the fact that he’d been interviewed and Twittered the link to it and all of a sudden people in Iggy’s follower…people following Iggy who have themselves, 10, 20, 30, in some cases, 100,000 followers.

Luke: Hundred thousand followers.

Tim: That was 100,000.

Luke: I haven’t got a thousand yet, let alone a hundred thousand.

Tim: And, you know, that was an amazing thing because all of a sudden you’re getting people with that many followers Tweeting our podcast and it just became viral. So that was quite exciting to become viral, I’ve not been viral before…

Luke: No.

Tim: Nor have you.

Luke: Fortunately.

Tim: Yeah, that’s right. So, great, really good lesson there and interesting and thanks, Iggy. So we are going to announce at the end of this show the three winners of Iggy’s signed personalised book.

Luke: Called “The Connection Generation”.

Tim: And then we are going to get straight into an interview.

Luke: Yes, today, Tim, we’re going to be talking to Martyn Thomas from Frank Media.

Tim: We are. Frank Media is a Melbourne media planning and buying agency and Martyn’s a bit of an expert when it comes to making best use of one’s advertising dollars. So he’s going to share a bit of that with us. But he’s also got some great stuff to say about building community around your business.

Luke: Yeah, becoming part of your local community, whether it be virtually or online.

Tim: Yeah. Well virtually is online, Luke.

Luke: Correct. Sorry.

Tim: Virtually online or offline.

Luke: Virtually or in reality.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, that’s right. And he shares a bit of stuff about how to get tuned into your customer’s needs and problems and we started off by asking Martyn what’s his thing at the moment.

Luke: That’s right, what’s his thing.

Martyn: Community is my thing at the moment, I’m talking about brand communities. And it was interesting to note that a large international advertising agency in America, DDB, have started a chief community officer, so a CCO.

Tim: I saw that.

Martyn: Yeah, how interesting. And…

Tim: Good job.

Martyn: Very good job. And then…

Tim: So tell us about…community is your thing, I know exactly what you mean, but expand on…

Martyn: So well…

Tim: Expand on community because it’s huge, I think, from a marketing perspective.

Martyn: Yeah, it is. It’s, I mean, we’re all part of some community, whether it be a local community or whether it be an advocate of a brand, which makes us part of a brand community. And I’m a big believer that what’s afforded to us online at the moment is the opportunity to actually corral these communities and make them work and make them interactive and engaging and relevant and up to date. I also believe that as land pressure continues, the breakdown of the family home is going to result in…well there’ll be more and more single dwelling units, so more isolated lonely people, Tokyo style. And I think also therefore the touchy feely community is going to come back. I think that’s a very important aspect. So you’ve got those two together where people can practically be in a community internationally online, that’s fantastic, but also I see this other sort of touchy feely thing because I don’t think the online thing can exist without the other bit. And I’ve got some…and out of that spawns new business ideas, it really does, and one of those came to me the other day…

Tim: Can I just add…

Martyn: Yeah.

Tim: Share that, hold that thought, but I’ve just finished reading a book, and I can’t remember the name of it, but it was this fellow who was trying to sort of future cast as to what it’s going to be like in 2050. And he talked about how medicine is going to do this and transport is going to do this and business is going to do this. If I was to summarise the book after all these amazing ideas from all around the globe and in space and underwater, was that we’re all going to come back to being a village and…

Martyn: Yes.

Tim: …and a community, because we need that reassurance that everything is okay.

Martyn: Yep.

Tim: You know, with petrol prices going up and the way things are going.

Martyn: Yep.

Tim: You know, potentially a big shopping centre, a big, you know, major shopping centre could become obsolete, may be a bit harsh, but a strip shopping centre may see a revival and the online communities and people just looking over their fence and not way way down the road for solutions.

Martyn: Which is…yeah, I wholly agree and yet I don’t know whether it will happen in our generation or in our lifetime but it will happen because you kind of put all the ingredients and look at the macro picture what’s happening out there and there is a big need to put back into the local community. So we are huge advocates of shopping at the local greengrocer or shopping at the local butcher or whatever local whatever. And…

Tim: Whatever.

Martyn: Whatever. And, you know, looking at the notice boards in the local grocer…

Tim: Yeah.

Martyn: …or whatever. I love those…

Tim: Love those.

Martyn: …community notice boards.

Tim: Yep.

Martyn: There’s a community notice board in Ormond Road in Elwood and it’s got all sorts of weird stuff on it and then, you know, like a dog for sale or whatever, you know.

Tim: Yep.

Martyn: (5:54).

Tim: Did you buy it?

Martyn: So I see there’s a lot of power that can be harnessed through those sort of forums.

Tim: Okay. So how does…sorry, I know Lukey is busting with a question.

Luke: I don’t want to jump in between you two.

Tim: But I’m excited, I’m excited. How does a small business owner, that’s great, theoretically, absolutely spot on, but how does the small business owner harness this concept of community to get more customers and make more money?

Luke: Can I chip in on that too and just say I think one of the…along the lines of what you’re saying, Tim, is that I think developing critical mass and getting that tipping point online with an online community is very difficult to develop. How do small businesses go about…

Tim: But this is more than online.

Martyn: Well it is. But I don’t think it’s just a challenge for small business. We recently pitched for a large energy company and they asked us what we saw the landscape in 2015, which is not quite 2050 but it’s far enough away to make it half interesting. And they loved our answer which was about communities and how this company could put back into the community by maybe not just building playgrounds but maybe taking sports clubhouses and painting the things. You know, there’s so much you can do. Because if you leave it to local government it’ll just get wrangled and money get wasted. Growing, and this is my new idea sort of…

Tim: Go on, blurt it out. Is this an exclusive?

Martyn: Yes, yes. Community vegetable growing, fruit and vegetable. There’s so much dead land out there, I don’t mean dead in terms of dead dead, but just not being utilised and if you could…if you understood what land can yield, ten square metres can yield enough vegetables for a family of four.

Tim: Farmer Martyn.

Martyn: That’s right. Well that’s it because then we have discussions when I’m with friends about, okay, so come the apocalypse and the village, and we’re in the village, right, what would you do? And I go, well I’d be the farmer and I’d gather the firewood. What would you do? And, you know, my wife would be the potter and she’d make the bowls which we’d all eat from and, you know. You can’t get back to that kind of basics because if I was to…you know, if any of us, I don’t know…

Tim: I’d be the cremator. Sorry.

Martyn: But if we projected like back 100 years, what could I contribute then that I, you know, I can’t build a car, I can’t start a phone…you know what I mean?

Tim: Mmm.

Martyn: So it’s kind of basic what can you do, what can you do to contribute and going back, trying to align that to small business and that sort of need, you just sort of start to see many of the opportunities. So it’s not necessarily starting with a small business idea and then trying to make it retro fit, you kind of understand the background or the foreground that’s before us and then come up with an idea that maybe is right for the times. And maybe some small business ideas, whatever they may be, are just dead in the water before you actually get very far because they’re ill considered.

Luke: All right, we’re just going to pause Martyn there for a sec because we want to have a bit of a chat about his concept of community.

Tim: Lukey, I reckon this community thing is huge and I think it deserves another couple of minutes of our time. And for our listeners I think the question here is really like how can your business use the concept of community to increase sales. Because community, you know, is such a hot topic and I think will continue to be such a hot topic. And I think before we share some ideas with the listeners, Luke…

Luke: Yes.

Tim: I think that just defining community as being both getting involved at a local geographical level, but also getting involved in communities that may not necessarily be like close to home on your doorstep but online, global.

Luke: Yeah, online forums, for example, there’s a business forum here in Australia called “Flying Solo”. They have a big online following.

Tim: They do, Lukey.

Luke: And there’s a lot of people that are always very proactive in their forums.

Tim: And a lot of, yeah, well see that’s a great community of small business owners. And you will definitely find people of a like mind. And that’s the great thing about community…

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: …is that it’s about people of a like mind.

Luke: Yeah. And it’s…just remember it’s not about just receiving information, it’s about giving.

Tim: Give, give, give.

Luke: That’s right.

Tim: Hey, so some other ones, meetup.com, so that’s meetup.com, is a ripper way. What do they say on their website, find a meet up group near you. Have a look at it. We just checked it out for our home town and there’s 23 groups of various communities too you can join straight away. That’s a ripper way of getting into communities.

Luke: Yeah. And there’s a lot of business based communities there too.

Tim: Yep, there are. Podcast, I mean, just simply through Small Business Big Marketing, this podcast that you’re listening to now, one of our aims is to create a community of like minded people.

Luke: Indeed.

Tim: So that’s a great thing and how we make that come to life, stay tuned. There’ll be some ideas coming up over forthcoming episodes as we work it out, listeners.

Luke: Yeah, correct.

Tim: Lukey, what else have you got in terms of community and helping businesses?

Luke: Look, it’s one I’ve mentioned in a previous podcast and that is joining a local sports club.

Tim: Oh, yeah, that’s right, that’s grass roots.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: You know, if you do have trouble with networking, joining a club is a good one. You meet with people regularly.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: You develop relationships and quite often it invariably leads to business.

Tim: Correct. LinkedIn groups, guys, listeners, if you haven’t started a LinkedIn…if you haven’t got a LinkedIn ID or registration, go and register now because it’s worth it. And when you do register and put your bio there and link to your website and do all that, the next step is to start to join some groups and you can search LinkedIn for groups, no matter what your interest or business, there’s going to be definitely a group for you and that’s a great way of entering existing communities.

Luke: If you’re not sure what LinkedIn is, basically it’s an online professional profile that helps you connect with other people like my little (11:37).

Tim: Lovely, lovely. Straight out of the Oxford Dictionary.

Luke: Correct.

Tim: And two more, why don’t we give them two more, Lukey, Twitter, I just think that is a community. You know, like there is…I feel as though when I go onto my Twitter page and see the direct messages and the mentions coming back to me, I feel as though that I am part of a community and definitely of like minded people. Wonderful way to get feedback, wonderful way to share information and so, and that’s a community of global people, you know, so…

Luke: I think as you found too, Tim, quite often you’ll get very honest feedback.

Tim: What do you mean by that, Luke?

Luke: I think you had some…a few angry people at a Tweet that you did a couple of weeks ago.

Tim: Oh, yes, I was looking for a virtual assistant overseas and I had 18 virtual assistants from Australia give me an absolute caning. So if you’re listening, any VAs out there from Australia, I’m sorry for looking for a really cheap one overseas and I’ll never do it again. And, look, I reckon that’s enough. Last one, we mentioned it before, but Chambers of Commerce.

Luke: Chambers of Commerce. Actually before we do move on, there’s one that you mentioned to me before, Tim, that I wanted to mention that, that is joining someone else’s community. You suggested a bit earlier that, when we were chatting before we started…

Tim: You said we were chatting before, twice.

Luke: About appealing to your accountant’s customers.

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

Luke: Now, she has…she has essentially a community of her customers.

Tim: She has, 60 small business owners.

Luke: Yep. That you want to basically become involved in that community and you figured out a way how to.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, so hosting. I’m going to host a free webinar for my accountant’s clients to share some marketing ideas with them, in the hope that they go, oh, hey, this guy knows what he’s on about, we’ll use his services. So a bit of give to get.

Luke: Correct.

Tim: All right, back to Martyn.

Luke: Back we go.

Tim: I replied to…I commented on one of your blog posts…

Martyn: You did indeed.

Tim: …today. And I love that blog post. And that blog post was about the fact that blind…I’ll sort of paraphrase here, and correct me if I’m wrong, Martyn, but blind marketers pretending that everything is A-okay in consumer land.

Martyn: In consumer land, yep. It struck me over the…I think I start…it was all about, you know, Gaza was happening, Congo had just been pushed off the front pages for some reason, everyone was talking about the great global crash and it was gloom and doom and Australia had just won the cricket and it was like, oh my…you know, or just lost the cricket, whatever it was, you know, it was just like, there was a bucket load going on in the world, we’re losing water, fuel is running out, there’s too much sun, blah, blah, blah, but get an 89, you know, what was it, 2008 car while stocks last. And, you know, stocks are going to last for like forever.

Tim: Yeah, they’re not going anywhere those 2008 models.

Martyn: So what was that about, how stupid are we.

Tim: Yeah.

Martyn: I mean, you know, so when you start to be spoken to like that on TV, it starts to hurt and then, you know, then there’s always like take the fast food challenge and see how much meat and grease you can get in your gob in 60 seconds, you know. All these things will never go away, well up to a point, but I think any advertiser or client or service that acknowledges the need to be salient and pertinent and understand the times is actually going to have an advantage because they’re going to be appealing to people’s sense of…

Tim: Yep.

Martyn: The fear, discomfort.

Tim: Yeah.

Martyn: I mean, every day you read the paper or look online or magazines, it’s another step down, it’s getting worse, you know, and if someone’s talking about 2015 before we…it’s like well whatever.

Tim: Yeah.

Martyn: It’s a frame of mind. I refuse to acknowledge it.

Tim: Yeah, I do too, I do too.

Martyn: And I think that’s the only way to be.

Tim: So you won’t hear any of this on the podcast.

Martyn: No, that’s good.

Tim: But it is, I mean, the marketer and the marketers that recognise this.

Martyn: Yeah.

Tim: I remember one of the key questions on a brief to an advertising agency or design agency was what is the key insight into the person that you’re trying to appeal to and this is the key insight and this is just like gold because if you understand that people are hurting and as a…if you’re customers are hurting, what do they want, well they want a bit of reassurance, a bit of love, a bit of a cuddle, then the brands and the businesses that reach out and offer that somehow through their creativity, their headlines, their product offering…

Martyn: Yep.

Tim: …whatever, will win.

Martyn: Completely. And the clue to that is look at the brands which aren’t. And I’m not here to mention supermarkets, but I could, but they’re not hugely, you know, I mean, you know, they try and do their best but it’s not much fun. And you’ve got something like…I think it’s the Australian dairy farmers or Australian farmers something corporate, it’s like a farmers market. We just started taking that, so they deliver fruit and veg twice a week, grown in Australia, seasonal, that’s interesting and, you know, butter, bread, yoghurt, whatever you want, and it takes the pain out of going to the local super(16:29) which I think, you know, is great for everyone.

Tim: Yep. We’re going to stop Martyn there, Lukey, for one second because he…he touches on this notion and this concept of being tuned into your customers’ needs is a pretty exciting one. And, you know, like the iPod is a classic example of this, you know, a thousand songs in your pocket and Apple got it right, that’s, you know, they tuned right in to what customers wanted, you know. And there is actually a book that I am in the middle of reading called “Tuned In”.

Luke: Fantastic.

Tim: Yeah, I thought you’d be happy about that. And, look, Tuned In is a great book. It actually takes you through a six step process of how to tune into your customers’ needs and it acknowledges that instead of sitting around trying to figure out what product or service to develop next, or business offering to develop next, it actually gives you these six steps that kind of help you recognise what the customer wants and great example they use at the start of the book is there’s these Japanese businessmen, Japanese business warriors, or whatever they call them, these guys who start at 7 a.m. in the morning, finish at 9 p.m. at night, head off for a bowl of noodles, a bottle of Sake and a bit of karaoke and then hop on the last train home and…

Luke: I’ve got a few mates like that.

Tim: That’s right, they’re not even Japanese.

Luke: Yeah.

Tim: But what they do is they hop on the last train home, fall asleep, get to the end of the line, get woken up by the guard to say you’ve got to get out, mate, there’s no more trains and you can’t stay on the train, so they used to go and fall asleep in rice paddies, rice fields and…

Luke: Can’t be too comfortable.

Tim: No, that’s right. Although a pillow…a grain of rice pillow is actually quite nice so, yeah, yeah. But these guys fall asleep so some clever businessman had the idea of creating these little hotels at the end of train lines which allowed these guys to get a toothbrush and a face washer and a bed for the night. And it was a cheap way of…because the other option was to get a taxi back to their home and it was, you know, going to cost hundreds of Yen.

Luke: Hundreds of Yen.

Tim: Yeah. So…

Luke: Yeah, well fantastic idea.

Tim: Yes, it is a good idea. So that’s an example of being tuned in. And so how do you get tuned into your customers’ needs, Luke?

Luke: Well there’s actually a great blog post I read recently by Ann Smarty who’s a very prevalent SEO consultant and she had…she’s got a couple of great tools to actually find where you can…basically see where…see what people are asking for. Find what…

Tim: Give us three.

Luke: One of them is Yahoo! Answers.

Tim: Yep.

Luke: So do a search on Yahoo! Answers, for people asking questions in your field, in your industry.

Tim: So Yahoo! Answers gives people the opportunity to see what questions are being asked in a particular category or business field and…

Luke: Yep. So find out…you can find out what sort of problems people are having and then obviously try and come up with a solution for them.

Tim: Because as marketers, Luke, we are?

Luke: Problem solvers.

Tim: Correct.

Luke: There’s another one called Aardvark. I’m not too familiar with Aardvark, but we’ll put these links up in our show notes. And the last one, one that Tim and I both love is Twitter. There you can search….

Tim: You never know.

Luke: You can do lots of different advanced searches in Twitter and find out what people are asking for and also geographically based as well so…

Tim: Yeah.

Luke: …you can search within your local region to see what people are asking for.

Tim: Yeah. So what we’ll do, we’ll put those links in the show notes, listeners, as well as the link to that book, Tuned In, because it’s actually a really good read, quite inspiring. So back to Martyn.

Luke: Back to Martyn.

Tim: I’ve got two more questions for you, Martyn, and it’s a question that seems to be…I have a point of view on it but I’ll get yours first, should every business in the world have a website?

Martyn: Yeah, without question. I can’t think of an exception. I’m sure I’ll think about it, later tonight, I’ll go, oh, I should have said except that, but I cannot think of the need for…I mean, one of our…another client is a floor cleaning, they do mops and cloths, and I tried to convince