Radio advertising guru Dan Presser on how to create radio ads that cut through and sell | #393

Dan Presser:

That’s what it was.

Tim Reid:

All right.

Dan Presser:

I had no interest in prunes.

Tim Reid:

It is often the way I have many successful business owners sit on that seat. And often what they’ve chosen to do is not an industry or a category or a product that they have any experience in. They just see an opportunity or a gap.

Dan Presser:

The only thing I knew about prunes was when I was a kid my grandmothers used to say each of prunes.

Tim Reid:

My mother’s still here.

Dan Presser:

So that was the only thing I had about it. I just saw it as an entrepreneurial opportunity.

Tim Reid:

Yeah. Okay. Tell me about being a supermarket junkie.

Dan Presser:

I’ve just always loved walking up and down the aisles of supermarkets around the world. I mean whether it’s in the US or UK or Europe just to see the innovation in food and the way food is offered or packaged or whatever it is, is just always fascinated.

Tim Reid:

Me too. I would call that a fetish and I have that fetish with chemist warehouse and in fact I interviewed Jack Gance recently and I was telling him about it and I don’t think he quite understood what I was talking about. ] But I love going into a Chemist Warehouse and wandering the aisles and there’s something magical about it.

Dan Presser:

Yeah. I go to a Chemist Warehouse and I’m sure when I go in there and buy a couple of things their sales go up or whatever it is I do better than they did before.

Tim Reid:

Some clever marketing happening in those supermarket aisles and Chemist Warehouse holes. Quite oblivious too. It’s a bit like JB Hi-Fi. They scrawl the prices on these tickets with text is like oh we don’t really care it’s just we want to get rid of it. Now you care. And it’s a very subliminal message there that’s roping us in. Yes we are here to discuss these sunraysia prune juice and Blue Banner pickled onions ads to give listeners a sense of scale. Can you give us how big are these brands? How big are the businesses?

Dan Presser:

We don’t ever because we’re private disclose revenue. I would suggest that sunraysia is a very strong healthy wellness brand. The Blue Banner is perhaps a new brand for us. It has been around I think now since 1930. It’s a Tasmanian brand and we inherited that. If you want to put it that way because about four or five years ago when the family purchased rosella tomato sauce and we purchased the rossella brand and inventory the inventory showed up at our warehouse in Melbourne and I saw cartons of what was called blue bag of pickled onions and I basically said well what’s this and the people we bought from said well you bought it. And I said we did. And I thought I did really good due diligence but obviously not that good. Yeah the pickled onions. So we inherited that one and then I learnt the history of Blue Banner. And I thought what a fantastic story it was evidently created in kitchen in Hobart in the 1930s and it’s a very strong Tasmanian brand. And the great thing about it is, it’s a very unique product because the onions are very unique and they’re crunchy where a lot of pickled onion brands I learnt what I call squishy limp and soft. And I would say I have a crunchy pickled onions like Blue Banner than the other brands or some of them that are what I just said.

Tim Reid:

What a great pick up. Without going into any great detail you did. The family did purchase rossella for as a season listeners I mean that is a significant brand in Australian supermarket.

Dan Presser:

Yes it is.

Tim Reid:

How? Why?

Dan Presser:

I think like all of us we grew up with rossella. I can remember my Grandma in Brisbane because I grew up in Brisbane with the old wooden stove and she’d make this rossella Soup but we always had rosella Tomato sauce and I never dreamt that one day the family would buy it. But what happened was it actually was part of a company that got into financial difficulties starting with the gfc and about five years later they had to sell all the businesses that they bought and rossella was one of them. So I thought well why not. It looked like it could have been sold overseas. The family wanted to keep it in Australia and it had a great heritage and it was a great Australian iconic brand still is and so we bought it.

Tim Reid:

You’re not going to disclose how much but it was at a fast sale.

Dan Presser:

Oh it wasn’t a fast sale. I found out that receivers and liquidators are not your friends.

Tim Reid:

I could have told you that I know nothing about it.

Dan Presser:

No they’re not your friends because I can remember the last part of the negotiation where the other bidder which was an overseas bidder the negotiators came to us and said you have to bid more. And I said how much. And they said well something with substantial seven figures because in front of it because the brand was so well recognised you were really buying the brand franchise.

Tim Reid:

Absolutely

Dan Presser:

And the heritage of 125 years. So that’s what we did. So it wasn’t a bargain basement.

Tim Reid:

Was it an emotional purchase?

Dan Presser:

It probably was. In hindsight we didn’t have to do it but it was something that we actually did want to do and as I said as a result of that we inherited not Australia’s but Tasmania’s greatest pickle brand.

Tim Reid:

You don’t hear that very often.

Dan Presser:

We inherited that.

Tim Reid:

So what we know is that sunraysia prune juice a very big brand in the health category in Australia. Blue Banner pickled onions a wonderful heritage brand in Tasmania. You’re working hard to make that an Australian brand. So let’s talk why did you choose radio for sunraysia prune juice in the early days and now you’re using it on Blue Banner.

Dan Presser:

Okay. In the very very early days we were not as financial perhaps as we were today or are today and while we still have a long way to go we felt that radio could get out our message fairly quickly without high production costs. That was a big thing because if we wanted to make a beautiful television commercial we couldn’t afford it. So I learnt a lot by going to the US about talk radio and how many people listen to talk radio versus music stations and that talk radio stations in California that I was following and learning from and meeting people they were really really strong in ratings and things like that. So I heard about 3aw and I just called up one day and said I’d like to advertise on 3aw and they said what would you like to advertise. And I think this was in about 1985. And I said that I’d like to advertise prune juice. And everybody thought that was pretty funny. And including the supermarkets in Australia they thought it was pretty funny too because nobody was selling prune juice.

Tim Reid:

And it’s not very common to promote an fmcg product on radio either.

Dan Presser:

It wasn’t but I just thought well let’s give it a go. And so we did and then we develop a kind of unique style of radio advertising because I realized and the other thing that happened to us as we couldn’t afford any talent at all. And so we weren’t financially. So this was really seat of the pants marketing. So somebody said to me well if you can’t afford the talent why don’t you do it yourself. And I thought well I’m not really good at that but I’ll give it a go. And then as time went on one of my sons also decided he’d pitch in. So we did that. And then I asked my mother and she pitched in. Then we created these radio commercials which were called the Grandma commercials and they ran right through the 90’s.

Tim Reid:

So let’s play one now.

Ads Playing: OK. Welcome back sunraysia Dan presser and his little son Brandon. Remember all those years ago when grandma really came to town with tales of bouncing cranberries and bury treasures to be found. Well now it’s Gramma’s birthday. She’s 88 this year. So all her friends from then and now have come to give us sunraysia cheer. There’s the Kate cranbury crusader with his red crambo cape and the park pitting prince for grandma’s birthday cake. Of course there’s me and daddy and our friends both big and small. Let’s raise a glass of sunraysia cranberry juice to the best grandma of them all. Where’s the cranny granny.

Dan Presser:

And the rest I guess is history and people in 2017 2018 when they meet us they still talk about the 90s and those radio commercials I heard on 3aw. And then around Australia on other stations and subsequently we did turn them into cartoons which were animated commercials because again we couldn’t afford the talent. So we the three of us became cartoon characters.

Tim Reid:

What do you mean on radio?

Dan Presser:

We switched from radio. We went to TV in the country. We always have stuck to radio in the cities whether it’s Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and always radio.

Tim Reid:

How did that transition go? So you’ve trolled TV.

Dan Presser:

The thing is we could afford country TV.

Tim Reid:

It was cheaper.

Dan Presser:

In those days but we just loved CapCity radio. And I mean you’re talking about essentially more than 30 years later we’re still. we love radio. And so let’s pick that out.

Tim Reid:

We just heard one of the ways you cronie granny ads for sunraysia I played at the top of the show before you came on one of the blue banner ads same style same creative strategy essentially. I’ve been fascinated by them for years. I’ve spoken to friends and colleagues over the years thinking always as a marketer, why are these things working? And then as I go well now I’ve got an opportunity to interview Dan Presser who is the creator the producer the voice behind them. Let’s figure out why. I subsequently have a little bit of media I’d like to play to you from Ray Hadley. He’s one of the leading shock jocks I guess in Australia. And John Laws who was the leading shock jock in Australia until recently when he retired. Let’s have a listen to what they had to say.

Ads Playing:

I just can’t believe this. This is someone’s paying a lot of money to this have been played on Alan’s program my program. Someone is paying a lot of money for this guy to do this when your tummy gets the hungry for crunchy and delicious. Why not snack on tassie’s precious pickled onions. Blue banners you say you think the agency would say Listen mate look we’ve only had someone that knows what they’re doing you to do the commercial on that will draw attention to the commercial but it’s a shocking commercial. It’s great. And if I want to keep playing it I’m going to keep interrupting it and saying things like that. So for goodness sake, I’ll do it. But if they are actually from Tasmania they’re onions from Tasmania Australian ran onions I’ll do it for free. You can use my voice for free. Just get that one free.

Dan Presser:

That’s wonderful. I wish you’d interrupt every commercial. I just love it.

Tim Reid:

Well, publicity is good publicity.

Dan Presser:

Oh, good publicity. Everything’s great. Thank you Ray Hadley for that.

Tim Reid:

Did you ever contact him.

Dan Presser:

No I didn’t. I should.

Tim Reid:

You should. It’s not too late. Why not. So you have a completely humorous attitude to that.

Nothing you take personally.

Dan Presser:

Nothing at all. I just think there I agree with them. I think they’ve got an enormous cut through.

Tim Reid:

Well hold your thought because this is John Laws for again anyone who doesn’t know John Laws possibly the biggest shock jock on talkback Australia is ever known.

Ad Playing:

I wouldn’t mind if they became major sponsors on the program so long as they didn’t have those bloody Edith commercials with all that stupid poetry. Nothing wrong with a product. Product is good. I have a glass of it every multi-product okays just those idiot commercials that I can’t bear the stupid poems. I mean they must have been cute to begin with but cuteness and longevity do not go together. Let me tell you.

Tim Reid:

Fantastic.

Dan Presser:

Yeah. It is. And now we are really focussed on doing the same with Blue Banner. I think some of the commercials the hokey commercials that I’ve ever heard myself but I get a kick out of writing them. And you know Ray Hadley I I am the agency and I am the voice.

Tim Reid:

So it’s all very what you get a kick out of writing them. It’s all very well for the owner of the business to appear in his own ads. Clearly some ego attached to that which I have no problem with because there’s a lot of owners of ads of businesses who appear in their ads and clearly a very successful. Why are they working so well for you?

Dan Presser:

What I believe is that it’s just ordinary people because I consider myself believe it or not fairly ordinary I’m just the normal guy talking to other normal people in the normal way. Now as a kid I used to like to write poetry. And so I thought well this is different. And what I wanted to do was to ensure that I had cut through and people listened to the poetry. And a lot of people can say these ads which I talk to people they remember them and they actually I think the thing with the Blue Banner ads that’s really really different is we took one additional step. One of the things in trying to encourage consumers to purchase a product is to get them to try it. And this Blue Banner is the most premium of the pickled onions in Australia. And what it is, is that the point of difference is the crunch. So we have this thing about the blue banner crunch. And so I came up with the idea to say that if the consumers didn’t agree that Blue Banner pickled onions were the crunchiest pickled onions they never had or tasted or they had to do a census the receipt and refund the money. And I think that’s in marketing that’s a strong statement you can make.

Tim Reid:

I did too I noticed Domino’s Pizza as of recent times too on their box and say if you didn’t enjoy it just bring it back and refund your money or give you a new one. The old guarantees a wonderful marketing strategy. I’m not sure how many people could be bothered to take it up but it probably stimulates purchase.

Dan Presser:

I hope so.

Tim Reid:

How many returns have you had?

Dan Presser:

In Melbourne on 3aw and we’ve been doing this for months. We’ve had one and the reason for that is the gentleman explained to us is he just wants to see whether we’d really refund the money.

Tim Reid:

I love it. Hope you gave them double.

Dan Presser:

I don’t know what they did. But anyway the thing about it is that we’re quite genuine. We really believe that Blue Banner is the best pickled onion in Australia. I know I’ve learnt a lot in the last year or two about pickled onions. And if you go to the supermarket and you buy your brand whatever you buy and take it out and you squish it. You pretty soon find out whether it’s crunchy or squishy.Right. And that’s what we’re talking about.

Tim Reid:

Let me just just go back to the creative strategy because to me it’s naive. It’s a little bit immature. Your read of the script is quite theatrical I think I hear you say Blue Banner pickled onions now in Dan Presser normal voice. You play on it. You might camp it up a little bit for the read. They come across and with all respect because I actually like them. I’ve come to the conclusion that when push comes to shove I think they’re genius. They cringe worthy. These are words that are my own and I’ve heard other people say yes they work. Why? It’s not just you’ve got a great product and you’re offering a guarantee.

Dan Presser:

I see some amazing commercials on TV. I hear some amazing commercials on radio but they don’t give me a reason to buy or try. And a week later I forgotten them. And so what we’re trying to do is to use saturation radio.

Tim Reid:

In case I let the media spend.

Dan Presser:

That’s the media spend to put in people’s mind. The word blue banner that it’s really cut through for the brand and giving people reasons to buy. I mean if you enjoy the pickled onion. If you’re a pickled onions eater then you want the best pickled onions. And we’ve got the best pickled onions. It’s like if we were just having a normal conversation even though I do play on it by don’t tell people who I am on those commercials I just read them. It’s just normal conversation. But like Tim you could say to me well hey Dan what do you think the best pickled onion is and I said it’s Blue Banner. So this is how people really communicate if you’re communicating without super selling. I’m not selling anything. I’m just saying hey guys we’ve got a great pickled onion I put it across in perhaps a different style than most and it’s just talking to people as people.

Tim Reid:

I wonder whether we too given the state of the world these days it’s a crazy place and we yearn for a little bit of yesteryear. To me those ads take me back to a better time right where things were a little bit safer a little bit more innocent a lot more innocent. I wonder if there’s something in that.

Dan Presser:

There probably is. I get asked quite a bit about the ads because I said all our friends say to me when you get to take them off the air they’re haunting me. And it’s just it is it goes. It does go back to a time and a place. But I really really think it’s because it’s so casual in a way that it’s just normal people talking to normal people giving normal explanations no supersale when somebody asks me they say what do you think the ads I say they’re pretty hokey. And they are you know why are they poetry can’t stand the poetry. And I say I like to write poetry as a kid. That’s it. So you know and it’s a lot of fun to do you know. It’s like I could and I could almost do it off the top of my head just like did just like I’ll wake up the night and say here’s another Blue Banner commercial. It’s just in my head and I get up and I write it down.

Tim Reid:

So if we were to summarize the creative strategy of sunraysia prune juice and blue banner pickled onions. You like writing poetry. You like delivering that poetry that you’ve written. You like the naivete and the hokiness of it. And there’s an element that what you just don’t know why they work.

Dan Presser:

It’s possibly that too. I mean it’s really a strange thing. I could give you the scientific marketing explanations but if you cut through it by work and I can’t exactly tell you why I can give you the reasons I think they work but they seem to work because the figures that we see from the major retailers in Australia definitely prove that they work.

Tim Reid:

So let’s talk about effectiveness because there is that great quote from a 50’s ad guy somewhere doesn’t matter but he said you know 50 50 per cent of advertising works I just don’t know which 50%.

Dan Presser:

That was ogilvy’s.  I think was David Ogilvy.

Tim Reid:

How did my Bill Baden backorder his name was one of those guys.

Dan Presser:

One of those guys.

Tim Reid:

Is that kind of how you feel about it? How are you measuring the success?

Dan Presser:

We get these scandola from Coles and Woolworths. Every week so that you can read where the numbers are.

Tim Reid:

And you plot that against radio placement.

Dan Presser:

Yes we do.

Tim Reid:

Is there a time lag that you allow?

Dan Presser:

Well what happens. I’ve learnt over 30 years that radio normally doesn’t work in a day. I’d allow a month for it at least. And like in Sydney we running the Blue Banner commercials for Ray Hadley and all the other consumers until the end of March.

Tim Reid:

You’re not running them for him you’re running in his program.

Dan Presser:

Yeah but we want him to buy as well and Alan Jones as well. So everybody is a consumer. It doesn’t matter who they are if they’re consumers. And the more people that consume Blue Banner pickled onions. It’s great for Tasmania too.

Tim Reid:

In terms of measuring the effectiveness of the ads. I’m guessing is clearly the leading media for the brand.

Dan Presser:

Yes it is the only media for the brand for Blue Banner.

Tim Reid:

Wow. Oh that’s a very pure measurement then isn’t it? as you’re seeing scan data.

Dan Presser:

From the radio as a result of the radio. Yes.

Tim Reid:

Do you notice a difference when you aren’t running the ads in the scan data?

Dan Presser:

Put it to you this way. We haven’t had a time when we’re not running the ads to do that so we started on 3aw in August. August 1, they’ll actually run until sometime in February. And on 2gb and talking lifestyle. And I think we’re on talking lifestyle also in Melbourne.

Tim Reid:

Yes you are.

Dan Presser:

There’s no breaks.

Tim Reid:

We’ve spoken a lot about the creative strategy in terms of placement of these ads. Is there a science behind the stations that you’re selecting and where you’re placing them within a day or a night schedule.

Dan Presser:

I’ve always learned so I was taught by perhaps one of the US’s leading advertising gentleman who now passed on a guy called Elvine Eickhoff who actually created direct response television commercials. Way back when Ginsu knives and all these. He was the creator way back in and advertising guy and he had a company in Chicago called Eickhoff and Company and it was subsequently bought by Ogilvy in May. The way back when and I was fortunate in my life to have him as one of my mentors. So that was really kind of a great thing.

Tim Reid:

What was his best bit of advice?

Dan Presser:

Well he was the one who also did the money back guarantee. So he wrote a book and it was called all your money back and that dated back in the 70’s and 80’s. So he taught me all about that. And it was just a wonderful memories.

Tim Reid:

How did you get him as a mentor?

Dan Presser:

I actually was in Chicago where he was and I saw something on TV that I was quite interested in. And I went to see the company and they said I go and talk to our advertising agency. And for whatever reason he was there and they said oh why don’t you meet our founder. So I did. And we just hit it off and we were friends for years and years until he passed away.

Tim Reid:

What a great story. What a great mentor.

Dan Presser:

He was. He was brilliant.

Tim Reid:

There’s a lot of business owners listening Dan and I’m sure many of them have considered radio as a way to build their brands to get more business to get more inquiry. There is a science to it as much as I think you love the art of it. Yes there is a science to it because otherwise it becomes a bottomless pit. Some would say where you run the ads you’ve got to find more money to run more ads. What tip do you have for those considering radio?

Dan Presser:

I think that if you’re considering radio or any advertising. First of all you’ve got to be able to afford it but you don’t have to. What I’d say go into great debt because radio I think the value that radio can deliver and you can test with radio so it’s got a lot of advantages to make a commercial if you do it yourself. And I’ve had heard other people do it themselves and they don’t have to be shy. You don’t have to worry about it because nobody says. Thank heavens. So if they want to see you they can see you as a cartoon character. You can be very cautious. And even though I guess people would hear these blue banner or sunraysia commercials as they were and think they might be hokey or whatever you shouldn’t be shown and you just set aside a small pool of money and it doesn’t have to be a lot. And you find that most of the radio stations and if I talk about 2GB the ones that I really know or 3aw in Melbourne all the guys really help you. You know so they encourage like they’ll walk you through every step and they can even help write the commercial if you are not comfortable writing your commercial. So if you’re starting out in a business and you want to use the radio station can take you from go to whoa.

In doing everything and they can make packages for you just try it and you can measure what those results.

Tim Reid:

So your advice there is to slice off a bit of budget.

Dan Presser:

Yup.

Tim Reid:

Go in with your eyes wide open.

Dan Presser:

Yup.

Tim Reid:

Seek the resources that a radio station has because that’s what they do.

Dan Presser:

That’s what they do.

Tim Reid:

They have people who can help you write create your message. I wonder though whether if you had got the station way back then and said hey listen I want to run these ads. I’m going to read them it involves my grandma and young son. They’re going to go look. Dan nice try but let us create something a bit more space.

Dan Presser:

I did try that. Everybody try that. At the end of the day I realized though that I was the client and I was paying for it. And it’s really can I say that radio created our business and the 3AW way back in 85 is why we’re sitting here today and we’re still on a 3AW.

Tim Reid:

Wow. Have you tried other networks?

Dan Presser:

Yes I’ve tried some of the music stations which I listen to myself from time to time. But over the years I’ve never found them to deliver the results in the way that I like them to deliver them. And they weren’t comfortable the f.m. stations in running our type of commercials. So they didn’t like hokey. You’ve got to be slick.

Tim Reid:

I wonder whether to that the or the listeners of AW 2GB, They’re an older demographic they’re more inclined to like it because I know a bit of produce of a morning.

Dan Presser:

Today from what I hear there’s a lot of young people health and wellness with the Millennials is very very big. Your health and all the rest of it then.

Tim Reid:

Don’t even go there. I have a daughter who is a vegan a son who’s moving to become a vegan and another son is a vegetarian so last night as I’m cooking up the lamb chops everyone’s just going on and he goes Dad again got the barbie on. You’re absolutely right there is a massive shift towards that. And you’re going to benefit from that.

Dan Presser:

We are going to benefit prune juice for instance sunraysia prune juice is a very strong selling product. And it’s not just people who are over 50 or 60 it’s much younger people who might mix it with a bit of lemon juice or whatever they do with it but it’s out there.

Tim Reid:

Dan, thanks for coming in. I’m a little bit clearer on why these ads are so successful. And I’m very clear on the fact that you’re not 100% sure.

Dan Presser:

I’m not a 100% maybe 50.

Tim Reid:

Good on you. Thank you, Dan Presser.

Dan Presser:

Thank you.