Ex-Buddhist Monk turned entrepreneur Clarke Scott on why compassion is a critical success factor in business | #416

Clarke

Yep.

 

Tim

I love that quote.

 

Clarke

Yeah.

 

Tim

I mean I’m listening. You’re here. Is that how you live?

 

Clarke

It’s a template from which we can live. So, for sure.

 

Tim

You there?

 

Clarke

No, I think it’s a lifelong journey because fundamentally what it’s really all about is getting out of your own way. And as you know and as your audience will know as human beings we tend to trip up on our own mindsets. So, it’s very much a journey and it’s very much like a little bit like peeling an onion and you don’t know what’s under the next layer until you actually see it. So, I would say looking back over the years I’ve come a hell of a long way and I’m really happy where I am but I feel like it’s weird because I feel like I’m just starting. I’m probably halfway through my life.

 

Tim

Starting what?

 

Clarke

Like life.

 

Tim

Its a frustration. You’re about the same age as me 82. And do you find it frustrating? The fact.

 

Clarke

No not at all. Every morning when I wake up I’m excited to sit down and do work. And it’s not frustrating but you do need patience. So, bringing out the innate potential really is about. It’s something that’s already there. And we tend to I was just about to drop the f bomb we tend to kind of

 

Tim

You can do anything you want.

 

Clarke

We tend to get in our own way. Let’s just say it that way.

 

Tim

We’re a business and we’re talking to business owners to keep it in that context

 

Clarke

Yeah.

 

Tim

Are we our own worst enemies?

 

Clarke

We can be for sure. Yeah totally but we’re also our own greatest protectors. So, we need really to be able to distinguish between what’s working and what’s not. So, if you think about it from a software development point of view I’ve done some software development in the past. You have like a goal the kind of thing that you want to produce and you go ahead you write a long line of code line a code on a code line or code until it’s finished and then you put it out to market. You see how they react and then you bring it back in-house you tweak it you put it back out and we do that. So that’s just a metaphor for any kind of business.

 

Tim

Yes.

 

Clarke

We’re basically continually reiterating versions of our businesses. Our marketing messages everything that we’re doing.

 

Tim

So, it is quite interesting that philosophy you’re talking about again putting the context of the small business owner. We’re constantly striving striving striving to get somewhere to the next goal and then it’s sort of like we don’t even stop to recognize that we might have got somewhere with that goal and instead move forward and it’s like where is the friggin finish line. Because I’m exhausted.

 

Clarke

Yeah.

 

Tim

I’m talking on behalf of myself and others.

 

Clarke

Yeah.

 

Tim

All know moments in life

 

Clarke

I would call that the creative gap. So, there’s a gap between where we believe where we want to be and where we believe we’re at. So, no matter what we’re doing there’s always this feeling that there’s a gap between what we’re trying to create whether it’s for our life or for our business or the two together because they come together don’t they. For small business owners your life is your business and your business is your life really. So, there’s always this gap. So, what I say to people who I coach and to myself make sure you stop and you turn around and see where you’ve come from. So, it’s only when we look back in retrospect we go ok I’ve actually come in the last 12 months I’ve been able to shift a lot of stuff I’ve been able to move forward a great deal. So, if you do that year on year you do that going back 20 years I look back 20 years ago from where I was 20 years ago. So, your initial question was do you live your life that way. Absolutely because as a as a 20-year-old man I was as like most 20 year a horse you know kind of broken.

 

Tim

I’m amazed that the two ladies who are in your seats a couple of weeks ago Stephanie and Claire 24 year old entrepreneurs who are smashing it. And I just I was laughing inside because there’s like a 24.

 

Clarke

Yeah

 

Tim

I was out having fun. Trying to work things out. And yet these girls had like 22 products in Cole’s. They had a membership program doing 60 grand a month. Really. Yeah everyone’s different but I’m not others.

 

Clarke

Sure, I reckon when they’re 40 or when they’re 50 they’ll look back at that time and they would also have moved forward. So, who knows where they’re going to end up.

 

Tim

Yes.

 

Clarke

The fact that they’re doing that now to they’re not going to end there are they.

 

Tim

No. Clearly not. One of my mates Ben I had to laugh last week and I couldn’t go because I had a commitment on the Wednesday night but he said “oh mate you’ve been really instrumental in helping me get my website together. Would you come to my website launch party.”? And you know I’m the bad guy who just laughed at him and goes “Ben I’m honored. I’m really honored to be invited but I’ve never been website launch party and I’ve never heard of a website launch party.”

 

Clarke

He’s back in the day.

 

Tim

Yes, when they were renew thing. But his point was he goes “But Timbo. You got to celebrate the little stuff made as much as you celebrate the big stuff” a small business owner. We’ve got to stop and look back where we’ve been where are we going and reward ourselves for it. I kind of feel like that’s what you’re touching on. Hey let’s get a little bit spiritual because I want to talk about your entrepreneurial spirit. But I do want to understand what were you doing. I want to explore this Buddhist monk thing I know you’re not one now. I know that doesn’t define you and I get that.

 

Clarke

Yeah, I’m proud of it.

 

Tim

No. Well I hope you are. I mean I kind of think it’s pretty. Yeah. I found a lot of peace when I see a Buddhist monk. So first of all, what are you doing prior to choosing to be a Buddhist monk.

 

Clarke

Yep. So just before doing that I was at the VCA so Victorian College of the Arts studying music and so back then even before that I grew up in a working-class family my father is in the building trade small business owner and just worked his ass off never really saw him but I was nothing like my dad and I mean that in a nice way. I was writing music and poetry and I had I made my art my own clothes I was very different than a small business working class. Lucky was a carpenter. So.

 

Tim

I’m seeing that film where the kid goes and goes to ballet school.

 

Clarke

I can’t dance to so I no nothing like Billy Elliot

 

Tim

Billy Elliot

 

Clarke

Really nothing like. Yeah totally different. And I ended up pursuing music and but my grandfather he had probably had perfect pitch. We think that he probably had perfect pitch never had any kind of lessons but he could basically play. I had a piano at home so he could play that song

 

Tim

What pitch

 

Clarke

Was not great. But I ended up going to the VCA and it was during the VCA that kind of life fell to pieces I had friends who got into drugs and I was not but close friends who died and so it made me kind of really try and work out what the hell was going on and I just kind of fell into Buddhism is the way I say it and it really

 

Tim

How do you fall into Buddhism?

 

Clarke

Someone gave me a book and it just the whole thing rang true and it felt like coming home rather than meeting something that was foreign. It really felt like I was reading something like I was reading a book for the second time but I hadn’t. How do you know

 

Tim

You’re one of these people who had an epiphany.

 

Clarke

I’ve had many in my life. But this wasn’t an epiphany. It was not like that at all. It was it was more like. Have you ever watched a movie where you’ve gone. You get like half an hour into the movie. I’ve seen this before.

 

Tim

Dejavu.

 

Clarke

But you didn’t realise before you rented the movie. It was kind of like that. So, it was felt very close and I ended up meeting a Tibetan lama and that just that’s how all kind of happened and then

 

Tim

What kind of animal

 

Clarke

What kind of what?

 

Tim

what kind of animal

 

Clarke

Yeah, a Tibetan Lama not a South American Llama

 

Tim

Fine. It’s a dad joke that’s all.

 

Clarke

Yeah dad jokes are dad jokes for are a reason Timbo

 

Tim

So, you met this Tibetan lama and how did he get you across the line?

 

Clarke

I was already there. I drank the Kool aid and I really was looking for someone to basically guide me. And the funny thing is he didn’t say “ok come with me and learn all about my ways learn about Buddhism”. He said “I want you to go back to school and learn computers.” So, for me to go see a monastery up near the airport it was more like a dharma center actually but there was a part of it which was a monastery and a part of it which a dharma center what we would call Dharma centres which means lay people could live there as well. So, it was like a community. The only way I could move in which I was desperate to do was I had to have a job and I had to have a car. So, he was very westernised kind of Tibetan lama.

 

Tim

You had to support yourself and be self-sufficient.

 

Clarke

Totally. So, he taught me and he now passed away. When I eventually left 14 years later he is no longer with us. So, he when I left the monastery 14 or 15 years later to go and do a PhD I said to him “you’ve been more than a father more than a mother more than a best friend. There’s absolutely no way I can repay you.” So, he taught me everything from how to do business like it’s weird like he’s a Tibetan Lama. So, he taught me philosophy taught me psychology. He taught me and this goes into the whole compassion and business. He taught me about business like why the motivation behind business. As small business owners we’re trying to help others. That’s essentially what we’re trying to do with trying to help other people and there’s an exchange of value. I do this for you and you give me money and through that I can support my family. Support myself. I can support my business. Which will then allow me to do more of the same thing. So he taught me that the Tibetans are really good. What’s the word like bargainer’s. Bartering like

 

Tim

Dealmakers

 

Clarke

You’ve never seen a Tibetan I’ve seen him haggle over the price of apples.

 

Tim

Right. Well it just means he’s tight.

 

Clarke

No, he wasn’t. He wasn’t. He was not tight. In fact, his generous.

 

Tim

So let’s explore that because I want to explore I mean really you know again the context of small business owners what can we learn from you who have been ex Tibetan Buddhist monk. You’re now a business owner and you were during your days as a monk right. Yeah. And you have met this Tibetan Lama who’s given you some business advice. I’d really be interested to unpack that. So first of all

 

Clarke

It was more life advice than business

 

Tim

Life is business. Hard to separate the two when you’re a business owner right. So first and foremost, he’s basically got you in the mindset that “hey if you’re going to be a business owner you’re of service to others and you are there to add value to someone’s life” is that kind of lesson number one?

 

Clarke

That’s lesson number one. Lesson number two all the way. That’s the beginning the middle and the end is if you can come at your business from that perspective it does many things. There’s a lot of benefit. One of the benefits is that you like you cleave away your ego. So, Buddhism is famous for getting rid of the ego right. But if you can come at everything you do not just business but your whole life from the perspective of trying to be of service to others and just trying not you know we’re not Mother Teresa here. Right. Well you know what. It’s not about charity

 

Tim

It’s just fine. I hear it a lot and I like the phrase be in service to others but what does it mean? Does it mean like just do everything you can for everyone?

 

Clarke

No. There has to be there has to be an equal balance because what will happen if you come at this from the perspective of just giving service then

 

Tim

You’ll be broke really quick

 

Clarke

Not really be broke but you’ll become a doormat. From a psychological point of view someone that does that. There’s something wrong with them. They misunderstanding what’s going on so they must misunderstand their own psychology. So, the giving for the wrong reasons they’re not giving out a service to giving because somehow, they believe that’s going to make them be a nice person or a good person. And in fact, they’re not for giving in that way they’re actually giving from ego. So, if you can learn to give be just be in service of others without it without it being some kind of pious thing or a charitable thing.

 

Tim

Can you describe someone you’ve come across. And by all means even use yourself as an example that does this very well. Who lives a life of being in service to others is a business owner. Is out to make a profit. Is there anyone that comes to mind? You to name names but just describe how they go about their everyday.

 

Clarke

I explain how I do it and so using my background and the knowledge that I have from a philosophical point of view. From a psychological point of view, my day is basically about getting up and thinking about how, what can I do to help someone else. So, the business that I’m in I deal with custom advertised so I’ve got a business and I produce stuff and then I put it at the market and try and sell it at scale. So, I’m not talking specifically towards one person I’m thinking of you know I have this customer. What can I do to help them? I’m thinking about all customers so this customer advertised what is it that I can do

 

Tim

Just to be clear. Is that what you’re selling?

 

Clarke

So, I sell educational materials. So, I’ve got a digital agency where we do Facebook advertising we do video production.

 

Tim

So, what do you mean the business you’re in.

 

Clarke

So, the other wing of that. So, something that I’m pivoting in is online courses and coaching for personal brand businesses. So, someone that wants to be a life coach a consultant an online educator or an entrepreneur online I teach them how they can create content and brand content they can monetize their brand and then scale it. So, when I’m thinking about marketing to that person that person is a customer advertised.

 

Tim

Yes.

 

Clarke

And then if I sell that at 1000 bucks a pop and I sell it 1000 times there are seven figures. So, but to be able to do that I’ve got to speak to one person so that’s my custom advertised. So every morning I wake up and I think “how can I improve my webinar? How can I improve my email sequences so that my marketing really gets them to move?” So, from a selling point of view we have to push a couple of buttons in order for someone to get their credit card out and actually take action because more often not we’re not competing with it with our so-called competitors like other businesses. We’re actually competing with something in a customer procrastination something that’s blocking them from actually participating

 

Tim

Fear. Procrastination. Lack of understanding. Could be a whole number of things.

 

Clarke

So, I’ll go through I may go through my e-mail sequences and just try and improve the copy or a sales page or if I’m producing content that’s just a give. So, for the listeners that have read any of Gary Vaynerchuk stuff the whole notion of giving value following up and then asking someone to go deeper making them an offer and the way that he says that it’s jab jab jab right hook. So, the jab jab jab is the value

 

Tim

Give give give

 

Clarke

Giving value to whether it’s in content. How to videos. Just giving. And then the jab is making them at all.

 

Tim

Gary V and I’m sure you like him. I am aware of him. I can only take him in small doses. I admire him.

 

Clarke

Most people can’t.

 

Tim

I think my listeners will know what we’re talking about he’s probably the world’s leading expert on social media and pretty much every other topic he probably considers himself an expert on. Is he in service or is he just an outright capitalist pig. I know you don’t know him but so what.

 

Clarke

You know I know him well enough to say that he’s in the service of others and he also is very good at marketing. And so, I know that he has a film crew that follows him and he pays 50 grand a month for that film crew so he knows how to

 

Tim

Really?

 

Clarke

Yeah, he knows how to market but

 

Tim

His film crews are laughing behind his back.

 

Clarke

I don’t think so. He’s got 150-million-dollar agency that he does no work in. There’s other people.

 

Tim

Vaynerchuk media.

 

Clarke

Yeah. Tai Lopez. Do you know Tai Lopez?

 

Tim

No.

 

Clarke

Tai Lopez is a digital marker. Some people might. Some of your audience might know him and he’s doing more than nine figures. So more than 100 million. He has about four or five people on staff and he’s paying about 300 thousand dollars and he’s selling online courses basically just information products. And he’s famous for his video. “I’m in my garage with my Lamborghini.” That’s the guys

 

Tim

That guy.

 

Clarke

That guy but if you go a little bit

 

Tim

I might be a bit angry Clark

 

Clarke

If you go a little bit deeper though Timbo you’ll see that they’re actually doing some good. Their marketing doesn’t speak to me.

 

Tim

We haven’t got time for you to convince me. But go on.

 

Clarke

I think what Gary’s he doing is doing good.

 

Tim

Yes

 

Clarke

How he’s doing it the style of marketing doesn’t speak to you. It doesn’t speak to me either but that’s not to say that what he’s doing is not good.

 

Tim

I totally agree and I think he’s probably inspired and moved a lot of people into action that wouldn’t have been moved into action. So, you know again it’s just his personality is not someone that I can listen to for extended periods of time so i get that. Okay so we’re talking about

 

Clarke

Just on that point before we move I think the reason and I teach my students about this is that when we create businesses we should be creating businesses around our core values. The reason for that is that we can then be authentic and intentional with our marketing in such a way that what we’re effectively doing is we’re attracting people who have similar core values to us and we are pushing away were repelling those that aren’t. They’re not us. They’re not like us so therefore we don’t need to market to them. The great thing about the Internet. If you guys out in the audience listen to this now have you used the Internet in order to sell stuff in order to create business for you. If you can wrap your business wrap a marketing message around your core values that allows you to be both intentional and authentic and at the same time where you don’t care if someone likes you will not because it doesn’t matter because you’re being yourself but you’re able to do it in a very intentional way rather than just if you just be yourself without being intentionally in marketing as business owners we all know you’re going to get nowhere. you’re going to fail. You’re going to go bankrupt.

 

Tim

I get it. This conversation can get very confusing the minute I hear core values because I grew up in an advertising agency and so it was like core values those core values for all our clients and most of the clients never adhered to them and it felt like a waste of time. When core values are agreed upon and really you make them part of your being It shouldn’t be that hard because they are your core values they’re things that you value the most right and then apply them to your business. I can see how that makes sense and I had many small business owners like listening to the show wouldn’t have had the luxury or even the knowledge to go through a core values exercise right because it’s just it seems to be that thing corporates do. And then you put the plaque in reception and you adhere to the core values as you walk past to go to the toilet. Yeah. But yes, I get the fact that understanding and being true to your core values will attract others who share the same and repel others who don’t. So, I guess with Gary V. I don’t share core values I mean him and I. I like what he does. But there are other people I think could do a better that I can listen to so that’s an interesting. So back to Tibetan lama. Sounds like an interesting guy. Does he have a name or do you have to refer to him as your Tibetan lama.

 

Clarke

He had a name. He is a human being. He was a lovely man.

 

Tim

No doubt

 

Clarke

He could be very tough on me at times but in a loving and caring way.

 

Tim

So, I won’t be interrupting your naughty this is your interview not mine but we share your

 

Clarke

It’s your show mate.

 

Tim

Well. Yeah well that’s fair enough I like that. My listeners get a bit annoyed. Like “shut up Timbo just let them talk.” But we share a similar not a similar journey but I have got heavily into meditation a few years ago with a crowd called the Brahma Kumaris who still meant a lot to me and there was a lady there she still there by the name of Jacqueline and whilst she never run a business in her life. In fact, I don’t think she’s worked for a business in her life. She’s always been of service within the Brahma Kumaris. She taught me a lot about business so I kind of get where you’re coming from. Old Mate Tibetan Lama because they’re very powerful people these people and they drop these little messages into you either overtly or covertly that make you a better person or at least what Jacquelin did to me. I like that and I’ll carry that with me every day and even now as I think about it there’s a real strength that you get from having a mentor like that.

 

Clarke

Yeah, it’s I think it’s about self-knowledge for me. So, his name was. Geshe Tuktun loden. Geshe is like Professor. I would call him Geshe la. La is an honorary honorific suffix but his name was Tuktun Loden I’d never call him by his name but only because it was the relationship was such that I would go and get. So, with Geshe la it was very much he was like a mirror and he would hold a mirror up to me so I could see my own face like my own psychological face and I could see the good bits and I could see the really ugly bits and the essence of Buddhism is really identifying our dysfunctional states of mind and replacing those with functional constructive positive states of mind that’s the essence of Buddhism. The whole Monk thing the clothes it’s like an athlete. You’re an athlete of the mind. So, I would wake up every morning I wouldn’t take drugs I wouldn’t smoke I wouldn’t go out and party I wouldn’t drink alcohol. You are a celibate person but that’s for me there was no difference between that and an athlete. So, someone is training to go to the Olympics wears a uniform doesn’t drink doesn’t smoke. They still have sex but doesn’t go out searching for it.

 

Tim

You’ve got robes on the athletes got their Nike you know

 

Clarke

And they are training their body. I’m training my mind. I did it for a certain period of time and then were at the point at which I felt like it completely integrated everything that I could from within the tradition. I woke up one morning and I knew it was the day that I was going to give my Veil’s back. So, I emailed my preceptor and said and he said “no problem Clark no problem at all.”

 

Tim

After how many years?

 

Clarke

So, I wasn’t a monk for the whole I wasn’t fully ordained for the whole Monk time but it would have been by that stage it would have been about 16 years.

 

Tim

And it’s clearly not a lifelong commitment should it be a lifelong commitment or was the fact that you were stepping out of your robes doesn’t mean that you’re still not practicing.

 

Clarke

I practice every day.

 

Tim

Right. What does that mean I don’t look like does that mean sitting cross-legged with incense or does that mean just being in service

 

Clarke

I know you’re trying being provocative. Well

 

Tim

You know I’m actually not I mean I’m actually asking what it looks like but also sort of second guessing some people who are thinking I’d just kind of sit around all day and which I know you don’t.

 

Clarke

Absolutely not. So unfortunately, the Asian traditions Asian philosophical traditions and the contemplative traditions have been almost butchered by popular culture and by the hippies of the 60s. And we’re still having to I’m still having to deal with that these days by having to answer questions like that.

 

Tim

It’s try talking to idiots like you.

 

Clarke

But yeah you’ve also been in the same place you’ve probably have friends who are like Tim has gone crazy. He’s now meditating right and we both know that meditation I meditate in front if I’m having a good day a bad day it doesn’t matter. Every hour or so I will sit there and I will watch my breath. I don’t make any big fuss about it. Sophie my wife doesn’t know that I’m even doing it so she is home and where my office is set up. She can see me from the kitchen. Not to say that when she’s at home she’s in the kitchen. That’s I didn’t mean it to sound sexist but that just happened to be the location of our house.

 

 

Tim

But I get that

 

Clarke

She wouldn’t know. And so, for me meditation is nothing more than being able to. It’s an ongoing process of becoming mentally healthy. So, if you’re if you think about it from a physical training point of view if you if you’re serious about physically training you’d be serious about the food you put into your body. You’d be serious about sitting well in your chair if you have to spend eight hours a day in a chair working. You’d make sure that your posture is right, right. So, in a similar way if you’re training your mind if you have an email that comes in I have clients and not all my clients are spectacular people. So, I have to deal with these people and when I’m dealing with people who are clearly being difficult to me for reasons I don’t know why there’s some kind of political fight that’s going in going on inside that business and I’m taking the brunt of it. So, I’m not chasing invoices that haven’t been paid for weeks. All the stuff the small business has to deal with so I meditate. So, if I am an email comes in I will sit there and I will just quietly breathe

 

Tim

Put some space between the heat of that email and the decision you are going to make around that e-mail is what meditation does right.

 

Clarke

And self-knowledge.

 

Tim

I very if people listening to this get one thing from it and I think I might have touched on this years ago. But one of the things I learned in the Brahma Kumaris was a call to just jam just a minute and every hour on the hour if you were in a Brahma Kumari centre and if you weren’t they would just remind you to set something on your phone or watch a little beep that says hey top of the hour. Take one-minute sit back breathe. I’m still in amazement at what

 

Clarke

It changes everything.

 

Tim

It changes everything

 

Clarke

It does. People think that it can’t. It’s so simple how can that make any difference or when they first start doing it they don’t see any difference. They hear there’s this massive difference they try for five minutes it doesn’t work so they just let it go. And so, I would if anyone is hearing this and thinking I might try it. You need to be patient because

 

Tim

It has a cumulative effect.

 

Clarke

Yeah it does. And over the years.

 

Tim

Compounding effect

 

Clarke

Yes, very much very much so. So, your initial question was do you live your life in a way that’s brought out this innate potential.

 

Tim

You’re not going to forget that question.

 

Clarke

It’s a good question and I wrote that quote because that is my template that is my own mantra. I have that one and my other one is if you want to live an extraordinary life you need to be extraordinary. What I mean by that is it’s a matter to me. So, if you want to live an extraordinary life Clarke, Clarke you have to be extraordinary you have to give extraordinary value to your customers. You have to follow up in extraordinary way you have to be extraordinary if you want to live an extraordinary life if you don’t

 

Tim

I think it’s really interesting and again there’ll be some people listening who when I go on the waypath and get all sort of the universe is going to deliver they kind of switch off. They’re the people I want not to switch off because I’m really enjoying this discussion as provocative as I’ve been.

 

Clarke

There’s nothing rude about that.

 

Tim

Oh well it depends who you ask right. I mean to me no to the rational. Maybe you’re old man, tradie, blue collar home. Probably thought is a bit weird. Bit gay. Sounds bit gay

 

Clarke

When I went off to become a monk. Yes that’s. I’m sure he never actually said it to my face but I noted he did because my mother has we’ve had discussions about it. And Rochelle and it was a real fear of his and that’s fine. It was a complete misunderstanding of what I was doing. But over the years everything was okay but I would say to you if someone thinks that to be extraordinary till they have an extra early life you need to be extraordinarily somehow, we were I would say that you are completely misunderstanding the words because wouldn’t the German car manufacturers think the same thing. We want to make extraordinary cars and therefore our engineering has to be extraordinarily. So, if you want an extraordinary business you need to be extraordinary in your business

 

Tim

Whether it’s we or not. Well, let others decide that it’s not practiced 100 percent of the time by all the business owners out there

 

Clarke

Totally. It’s a template.

 

Tim

And when I do and I’m the first to admit I I as much as I would love to think I’m constantly offering extraordinary value. No, I’m not. I like to work towards that all the time but boy when I see an I’m thinking of a couple of colleagues and friends at the moment who do offer extraordinary. Extraordinary value. their lives are also extraordinary when they’re giving people.  They very open people. They’re very strong people. They’ll say no as much as they’ll say. they’re not going to be doormats as you put them. And so, I like that I get the fact that you want to live an extraordinary life then be extraordinary totally. Michael Clarke by the way listeners we are talking to Clarke Scott. I don’t even know how to frame you Buddhist monk turned entrepreneur. We leave it at that?

 

Clarke

Yeah except that I would say even as a teenager I had this in my mind the whole entrepreneurial thing building businesses business was I wasn’t the kind of the lemonade stand kind of kid I wasn’t that cliché but when I was playing music my friends used to tease me because I remember putting a band together when I was at the VCA and the band was I played saxophone there was a guitarist there was a drummer and there was a harp. It was art music and but somehow that group just clicked. Immediately I’m like “you know let’s turn this into a business”. Well let’s go get gig it’s going to make money. And my friends are like “really? You know go away”

 

Tim

They the protective precious creative types who don’t who you know there’s art and there’s capitalism and never the two shall meet and your view of spirituality and capitalism and the two will meet. Yeah, they are meeting. Let’s talk compassion. You’re big on it. define it. And how does it play a role in running a business.

 

Clarke

I’m being provocative by bringing these two together and for purpose compassion in the West is completely misunderstood. It’s often seen as being weak and kind of wet and only something that religious people participate in. Or what have you. And from the definition of compassion from within the philosophical tradition of Buddhism the one that I was educated in is that compassion is an aspiration. So, it’s what we call a mental factor as an aspiration it’s a desire that one self or another is free from suffering and the causes of suffering. So, then what. How do we define suffering? It’s pretty easy. Suffering is suffering right? So, if I can produce something it alleviates that suffering and I can then get money that will enable me for that for that thing that I’m giving to you that will enable me to then go and give that to someone else then that’s a business I’m able to sustain and scale it. And if I can then, I would say that’s the definition of compassion. Bringing those two together allow business to be an altruistic business but that’s not devoid of capitalism. So, if you can make a lot of money and have a house at Wye River and the new Porsche GT3 my new favourite car. there’s actually nothing wrong with that there’s nothing inherently evil about money. It’s what we do with money that can either be good or evil it’s jealousy pride arrogance anger all that’s what’s dysfunctional

 

Tim

The deadly sins.

 

Clarke

Well yeah. And they’re going down the Abrahamic view of life just from a pure science point of view.

 

Tim

So, if I could again find the practical way we can use compassion. The other day over the last couple of weeks I’ve been completely dicked around by someone in business. Right? They approached me to do something I’m like and it was at the last minute they were in a bit of trouble and I’m like “hey let’s take a breath. I think I can help you I’ll check my availability. All good. Here’s my fee here’s everything” that person then went away and they were quite desperate at the time. And then I heard nothing more of them and I get my back up about this because I think not personally but I think small business owners you know things can be tough and hard and we want people at least to respond to us to tell us you’ve either got the job we haven’t. We haven’t that’s cool but least like let’s communicate.

 

Clarke

It’s annoying when that happens

 

Tim

It is anyway this person didn’t communicate and that was getting close to the date and I realised pretty quickly that I didn’t get the gig. But my view is like at least let me know. But I kind of threw meditating on it. put some space between it and gone. This person may have something going on in their lives that is stopping them from getting back to me. It’s not about me. It was never about me. Something’s happened so you know

 

Clarke

possibly it was just a dick.

 

Tim

Possibly just a dick. I think they were Dick but I don’t know. You know but to me that’s

 

Clarke

My wife’s laughing over there.

 

Tim

To me that’s how I would use compassion.

 

Clarke

I think you’re compassionate towards yourself to be honest. You say I got my mind back up yeah.

 

Tim

I think I like the cut of your jib

 

Clarke

So, compassion. As I said before is completely misunderstood. Some people might hear that story and think well and your kind of did as well as like oh maybe there’s something else going on with that person maybe. I mean that’s all airy fairy. That’s why this stuff gets a bad name because we make it work. And it doesn’t have to be.

 

Tim

Sought me out. What should I have done.

 

Clarke

So you shouldn’t have got angry with yourself for a start like how dare they. Right. That’s coming from a place of. “How dare they do that to me”

 

Tim

Ego ego. Totally an ego.

 

Clarke

So, we all have egos. It’s how we deal with them. That’s the difference between someone who is who is able to be extraordinary like these friends you talk about and the ones that aren’t. So, if you think about this person this friend who is extraordinary they’re able to say no. So, if this person is dickin you around you get on the phone and you say hey Harry hey Dick what are you doing.

 

Tim

But I tried. I phoned. I emailed.

 

Clarke

maybe just let it go.

 

Tim

Good advice. Because did I beat myself up over it a little bit. I did get annoyed.

 

Clarke

Okay so you’ve got annoyed because your ego got involved and then you got upset with yourself for getting annoyed and there’s no compassion in that is there?

 

Tim

Should I give myself a big hug

 

Clarke

Or just let it go. If you have let it go. In that moment and that’s where the practice comes in. Because that’s not it’s not something that comes natural to any of us because it’s culturally it’s not how we are brought up as even as the species of human beings. We’re not. Our education system doesn’t allow that. We are not taught or told that we can be compassionate towards ourselves in that way. We believe that compassion is about being you know just turning our cheek continuously to the sufferance of ourselves and that’s not what compassion is about at all. It’s being free from suffering in that moment you weren’t free from suffering at all. You’re beating yourself up

 

Tim

Just to complete. Suffer was my middle name.

 

Clarke

But I do I do that too. I beat myself up. She knows I beat myself up all the time. We all do it. The idea that refractory period between when you begin to beat yourself up and then you notice it and then you let it go and that shortens over time. Things that I’ve noticed in my journey over the last 20 years I’ve become a lot less judgmental towards others a lot less judgmental towards myself a lot more patient yes patient a lot more patient towards

 

Tim

By the way listeners Clarke is constantly looking at his wife Sophie who’s just she’s completely like yeah come on tell the truth Clark.

 

Clarke

That’s not very nice its totally my wife here.

 

Tim

So interesting.  It really fascinating. It’s a conversation that I haven’t really had on the show up until now. So, it’s been good I would probably like to go for a couple of hours but I can’t.  I got to go to Thailand.

 

Clarke

Sure. It sounds like a pretty good trip

 

Tim

But so, some great learnings around Buddhism, Compassion and all that. I really appreciate that. Let’s just talk about business for a minute. you are in business now and you are still a Buddhist and you are running it with that philosophy in mind. Is there any parts of running Clark k e Scott education is that name your business .com that I like that? Go ahead and seed it I love seeding. Is there any part of the business where you are completely challenged and all the Buddhism power and meditation in the world just doesn’t enable you to move forward without blowing?

 

Clarke

Yes and no. So, there is not one part of the business of talking from it just from the business perspective that the Buddhism doesn’t somehow, it’s the platform from which every aspect of my life sets off. So, from every aspect of the business Buddhism is there coupled together. It’s everything that I that I do. But when I talk about Buddhism it’s really just about training the mind. So, in that regard business is actually a fantastic fertile ground from which I’ve got all kinds of challenges challenging people challenges like cashflow having to do with all of that stress. It really stretches me as a practitioner as a contemplative. So, it’s because of the challenges of business I’m a better person I’m a better Buddhist because of Buddhism. Because of compassion I’m a better business person. There are aspects of my personality that are still challenging. Stuff that I’ve been dealing with from when I was a kid not that I had a bad life but there’s just these issues around psychological issues. I call them dispositional narratives. They are these other the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves. So, one story and I know we’re running late so I’ll do this really quickly. My father as a young man he didn’t finish high school but he was he used to think that he wasn’t very smart and he’s not book smart but he’s very street smart. He was a very successful businessman. He used to say to me as a young bloke “I’m not as smart as everyone else clocks I’ve had to work harder than everyone else”. Now from his point of view he’s trying to instill in me the Protestant Work Ethic work hard and everything will be alright. What I heard was “you’re not as smart as everyone else Clark”.  It wasn’t till I got to high school I realised that wasn’t true. I found myself when I was doing my PhD. still having to deal with that same narrative. I didn’t even notice it through my teenage years until I was well into my 30s before I realised “wow that’s an old story that I’ve been telling myself” and it’s actually been and because it’s so close this a Tibetan saying “it’s easy to see the flea on another’s back it’s hard to see the elephant on your own”.

 

Tim

It’s easy to see what

 

Clarke

The flea on another’s back. It’s hard to see the elephant on your own. This was my elephant and it was stopping me big time. I’m in my forties now and I’m still dealing with it. So, I notice it when things aren’t going well. I can hear that little voice going. “You’re a loser. This is never going to work for you”. So yeah. And but at that point because of my meditation practice I can see those very subtle little voices that are preventing me from being extraordinary. So, the mantra for me is really a mantra If I want to live an extraordinary life which I do and I believe that that everyone does. Then we, me, I need to be extraordinary in every single way. I need to know myself in an extraordinary way. I need to give extraordinary value. So, the story behind. It is self-soothing in such a way that life becomes joyous when I’m done.

 

Tim

The extraordinary on certain on life but do you get sad?

 

Clarke

Do I ever get sad? I can I can be hard on myself for sure I can be real hard on myself and again that’s my dad that’s it. I don’t want it to sound like it’s blame. I’m not blaming him because from his perspective he’s doing good but the way I heard it because I was a very different a void to what he thought I was. I wasn’t a working class. I was a working kid but I was not into football. I was into poetry.

 

Clarke

Your old man still with us?

 

Clarke

Yes

 

Tim

Go home go home and watch Billy Elliot with him.

 

Clarke

I have yeah. He would not sit through Billy Elliot. The balls on Hawthorn maybe.

 

Tim

Now we’re talking. Yeah. Love the Hawks. If people go to clarkescotteducation.com What are they going to find there.

 

Clarke

They are going to find material that is philosophical in nature are all about business. I have a lot of stuff around personal brand businesses. A personal brand business has worked really well on the Internet because it’s people get to know they can trust you far more in a quicker fashion basically. So, my whole education that wing of my businesses because I have more than one is all about creating and helping people basically start and grow personal brand businesses. And what that means is that I teach content branding strategies content strategies monetization strategies and scaling strategies so that you can have an actual business as a life coach or a coach of some kind a consultant another educator if you like or an entrepreneur who is selling their either their information products or even like stuff like ecom some of the biggest e-commerce people around all have personal brands as the face of them. So, do creating strategies around that.

 

Tim

Yeah, I would encourage people to go have a look. Clarke Scott namaste

 

Clarke

Namaste to you. Thank you very much Tim.

 

Tim

Thanks brother.